RAYS 2, Orioles 0: Pitching, pitching, pitching (and a special comment)
By Scott Caruso | May 24th, 2008 | Posted in Game Recap
Pop quiz: why are the Rays winning so many games? I’ll give you a hint, it’s not their offense.
Another fine performance by a starting pitcher - this time to the tune of 7 1/3 strong innings from Matt Garza - and the Rays earned themselves another win and moved a game closer to the Red Sox for the division lead.
It’s official. Y’all really just like to complain and will never be happy. Some people will never be happy. No matter how much the Rays win. No matter how many shutout innings a pitcher throws. No matter how well things are going. It’s sad, really, that a team can be performing so well and yet a group of “fans” still try to find every negative thing they can about said team and blow it up like you do with a photograph. Numbers without context. Stats without meaning. It’s almost as if they are conditioned to be miserable, and want to make sure that everyone else is miserable, too.
It’s actually one of my biggest complaints with the blogsphere. It makes it very difficult to remain truly optimistic and excited as a fan when you read things like that. Why in the world can’t people enjoy 7 1/3 innings of shutout ball? Why in the world can’t people enjoy a fun 2-0 win? You might as well write a story that says, “Don’t get too excited. The Rays are still in second place.” Yes, heaven forbid we enjoy watching the team win. Better make sure we toss in a buzzkill to bring everyone down to our miserable, morose level.
I totally get it if you want to criticize things that aren’t helping the team win - Longoria and Floyd with the strikeout hat tricks last night, for instance, or Andy Sonnanstine and Edwin Jackson’s lack of consistency - but why in the world would you take a positive like 7 1/3 shutout innings and turn it into a negative post about the team you are supposed to support? It’s shameful, really, and it’s why lots of people have a big problem with the blogs.
So, then, what more do you want? 162 wins? 5 starters with ERAs in the 1.50s and WHIPs in the sub-1.00 range who throw 34 quality starts a year? How about 9 Ted Williamses on offense? Would that work for you? Maybe THEN you’d be happy? I doubt it, though. You’d wonder why that team wasn’t winning every game 15-0 instead of 10-1.
At the end of every game, every week, every month, and every season, there are but two numbers that matter. Wins. Losses. It makes NO difference how you get there, so long as your win total is bigger than the next team’s. Isn’t that what fandom is all about? Rooting for wins and lamenting losses? Why, then, are you now inventing ways to lament wins as well? Is it rooted in a hope that the team can get another high draft pick next year so you can spotlight a dozen players no one has ever heard of? Is it so you can justify using higher-level statistical analysis that no one really understands to determine why Eric Hinske is .0003 times better than some outfielder playing Triple-A for some other organization? Or is it because you have no shame as a fan, and would much rather write something that would generate more comments than something you really, truly feel?
Personally? I don’t want to sell myself out for the sake of writing a piece that might generate a few extra comments. I’d rather tell the honest truth the way I feel it. And I can’t think of one self-respecting fan that was mad at the way last night’s game went. And it’s a shame that some of us can’t take the blinders off long enough to see that we’re watching something very special. We’re watching a team that’s winning ballgames and having fun doing it.
And most of us are having fun watching it.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:35 am
I agree 100% Scott. People are never happy, even when things go well.
May 24th, 2008 at 10:09 am
It’s part of the human condition to find something to complain about no matter how good things are going.
On an upbeat note, we’re at .583 and it’s almost the end of May! Boyah!
May 24th, 2008 at 10:19 am
There is nothing wrong with criticism of players’ performance. Sure, it’s great to win, but it doesn’t mean there aren’t places where the team or individual players can’t improve, especially when the starting pitcher gives up as many walks as strikeouts (4 BB, 4 K in 7 1/3 IP).
May 24th, 2008 at 10:20 am
I don’t agree Scott. I think you use the wrong words to describe that post. It was not a complaint, nor was it even really criticism. It is simply a continuing effort to analyze and evaluate.
I certainly understand why some people would be brought down by such posts, but I don’t think it is necessarily the effect. I attended last night’s game and am still elated, I also read the post; in fact I did as soon as I arrived home last night. It did not bother me at all, partly because I had been thinking something similar all game even while cheering. And partly because it is simply a different aspect of looking at the game.
In any case, trying to understand whether Garza can maintain his success is not complaining. One can be unreservedly enthusiastic and still maintain some objectivity at other times.
May 24th, 2008 at 10:34 am
I LOVE IT SCOTT! YOU are sooooo correct. No problem wishing for more and I wished we were in 1st place and leading the league in all categories but I am also satisfied to be in the position that we are now. How many people would have wished to be in this position at the beginning of the season. (MOST ALL). This is what makes your blog so great. You are not afraid to say the right thing even if it offends some. Who knows how far we will go and for how long but it would certainly help if the fans would come out and cheer the Rays on.
May 24th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Why would anyone be offended by anything Scott said, or for that matter with what RJ said? It is simply a matter of people approaching the issue from different vantage points, and the approach of one does not preclude the approach of the other.
Actually, if the implication is that RJ meant to tamp down enthusiasm or is dissatisfied with the Rays position, then Scott is absolutely wrong. I cannot speak for RJ, but I certainly do not read it that way, nor did I when I returned from the game and read his post. On the contrary, I read it as a celebration of the Rays win and a rational effort to dissect its significance.
It seems to me that responses such as “some people are never happy” or interpreting analysis with lack of enthusiasm is akin to the same rhetoric that calls someone a “Jackson Hater” because he is skeptical of Edwin’s peripherals or a “Garza Lover” or “Sonnanstine apologist” because one sees progress in their efforts. It is a view of the world that is black/white, either/or, a view without subtlety or anchoring in the complexity of reality.
I am, for one, absolutely thrilled that the Rays are where they are. I also think it is for real, and begrudge nobody their unbridled celebration. But I can simultaneously appreciate that it is still just over 1/4 of the season, and there are still questions unanswered. And I can still express concern about weaknesses that may be hidden by the current success. I don’t think anyone should consider me a wet blanket for that view, and I do think that blogs like this serve best when they temper enthusiasm with realistic appraisals.
May 24th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
NO baseball team will ever be perfect, not every batter will hit above .300 and not every starting pitcher will always be dominant and you will never win every game in baseball. Which is WHY baseball is such a great game, no one is perfect, no team is perfect.
Scott you are right, to many people just don’t want to be happy, but I think after a few more months of winning baseball games it should begin to sink in. No one even thinks about bas mouthing the Bucs any more, but I remember when there was never anything good to say about them. This is a transition year for the Rays, from deep disappointment and losing, to the winning ways.
May 24th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
I agree, that website is not fun to read at all. If a blog can ruin the feeling after watching a great win, does that blog even serve a purpose? What is the point of a blog if its all about the writers and not about the team? To say Garza had a bad game is pointless and more a reflection of the terrible post of a blog than a terrible game from Garza.
May 24th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Nobody expects a team-or player-to be perfect. Nor is anyone being unhappy. Surely people can distinguish between recognizing complexity and being a spoilsport. If you want a blog simply as a cheerleader-and I am pretty sure that is not what Scott wants-that enthuses when we do well and mopes when we do poorly-then why bother. Just go to the nearest bar and take part in the revelry or listen to talk radio.
But if you enjoy combining fan excitement with some effort to dig behind the headlines, then blogs like this one and DRays Bay should please you. The article linked here was not criticizing Garza or demeaning his performance. It was simply pointing out that he is unlikely to remain effective if he has a 1-1 K/BB ratio. I think that is probably a true statement and something to keep an eye on.
The post did not say he had a bad game. It said he had a good game but there were elements of it that are a warning sign. That is a true statement. Why do people only want to read things that confirm their emotional responses? For me, I love the glow after great wins but I also crave some understanding of what underlay the victory and what it portends for the future.
May 24th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
The issue is more about the timming of the post than the fact that Garza has a 1-1 K/BB ratio. We know a 1-1 K/BB ratio is terrible, but repeating it post after post is boring and if a blog is boring does it do its job? I love reading articles about baseball, from Prospectus, etc, but constantly writing that a high K/BB is good and a low K/BB is bad is predictable and verbose. Most of baseball is watch and see if trends continue. If that is the extent of the post, what is the point of reading it?
May 24th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Fine, you don’t care for the subject matter that the site addresses. I do find it consistently interesting and with varied issues, but that is a matter of taste. But this thread began with a different concern. In the initial post the complaint was not that the DRays Bay post was poorly timed or repetitive but that it was negative and that it used statistics badly. And subsequent posts misrepresented what RJ said.
I recognize the feeling that after a win fans may not like to read about red flags. In that sense, I suppose the timing of the post is an issue for some. But that is not a criticism of the blog, just a matter of preference, and as a matter of preference, I do not need my reading to confirm my emotional state. Having exulted, I enjoy the balance of more objective analysis.
I will backtrack a bit on accepting the assertion that the blog is repetitive. Still featured on the site are posts of game commentary, Rays run differential, projection that Pena is about to break out, new ballpark debate, the Garza analysis, scouting report on Hellickson, discussion of the draft and Alvarez, observations on Price’s debut and something about the Commodores appearance. In addition there are the fanposts that consider issues ranging from Loaiza and Brayan Pena’s availability through a video analysis of Sonnanstine’s mechanics and consideration of what to do when Aybar is ready to return.
That is hardly repetitive, there is a great deal of in-depth analysis and opportunity to pursue such analysis (which may be the part many people don’t like) and plenty of rah-rah fan optimism, although it is usually bolstered with some information.
May 24th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
I, for one, don’t really care what everyone thinks on the matter. Everybody has their own opinion, and a lot of times we are all going to agree to disagree. I do think that we have the right to banter back and forth some, but this topic seems to be going too far. K-BB ratios can be misleading somtimes. Why do we care if Garza walked 4 guys last night? HE DIDN’T GIVE UP ANY RUNS, PEOPLE!!!!! He got the win, and threw 7.1 innings of shutout baseball. I don’t care if he walks 10 people if he gets out of the jams, and keeps them off the scoreboard. 4 walks is not a terrible night. It’s not great, but in no way is it a horrid night. Would you rather go back to the days of watching Victor Zambrano walk 6-8 people everytime he pitched? I didn’t think so! Let’s concentrate on the stat that matters the most…WINNING PERCENTAGE!!!
May 24th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
A.J., I agree the essential point is the win and that he pitched pretty well. I also think that the 4 walks are misleading as one was semi-intentional and the other came after he should have been out of the game, while two were in his one tough inning which he negotiated very well. Actually I posted that at DRays Bay and RJ acknowledged it.
But there is a reason to care. We are concerned with more than the immediate result or even the immediate situation in the standings. Those may be primary, but they are not all there is. Every team, and its fans as well, is concerned with projecting forward. Is our current success indicative of fundamental strength or is it built on sand and soon to dissipate because of weaknesses.
Pitchers may have a good record, even good ERAs, but if they are doing it against the odds given their peripherals it is reason to worry whether it can be sustained. Actually, I think in Garza’s case it can be, and the K/BB ratio in his case may be misleading. But it still is something to keep an eye on.
Here is an example. In the second half of the 2005 season the Rays played better than .500 ball in over 70 games. Lots of people, including Piniella I think, thought the Rays were turning a corner. But any reasonable assessment of that situation had to make clear that it was a mirage. A team that had Hall, Lee, Hollins, A. Gonzalez, N. Green, Cantu, Huff, Gathright, Fossum, Baez, Carter, Harper, Hendrickson and Waechter as regulars was not on the verge of contention. It was important to be realistic about that team so that proper changes could be made.
The same holds now, except that now it is realistic to see that this team is really very good and will get better. But that does not mean that every player is promising. Garza may be (I think he is) and even Jackson may be (of him I am less confident), but if they are winning despite weak peripheral stats it should send up red flags and we should pay attention to them. That does not mean we “hate” them or want to be miserable. Only that we want to keep getting better and not become smug.
May 25th, 2008 at 9:16 am
Here is the thing we need to remember about Garza right now-he is working on a 2-seam fastball. He had never really thrown it very much in games before because he could throw 96-97 MPH with his 4-seam, and just wanted to try to blow by hitters. Hickey has helped him realize that he can throw the 2-seam at 93-94, and be more successful with his movement. His walks will be a little higher for now while he adjusts to his newfound movement, but he will have hitters swinging at tougher pitches earlier in the count, as well. This means that he will be getting hitters out earlier in the count, so the K’s will not be as high either. I think that you’ll see Garza’s K-rate go up and BB-rate go down throughout the season as he continues to get more comfortable throwing all of his pitches. Once he does that, you’ll see him start setting hitters up more often to get to his offspeed stuff for the K. The one great thing about our pitching staff, that we forget so often, is that our oldest starting pitcher is Shields-26 years old. These guys don’t usually hit their prime until 28, so we are seeing some great thing from guys, and we won’t be seeing their best stuff for another few years. So, while some people are wanting to nitpick at every little peripheral stat, I will just sit back and enjoy watching good, young pitching, and just relaxing with my thoughts that it is more than likely going to get even better over the next few years.
May 25th, 2008 at 11:00 am
There is no disagreement here at all. In fact, the youth of the staff is a key component in any effort to evaluate what is going on.
I am very optimistic about Garza, and your points are absolutely legitimate. I suppose it comes down preferences. Nobody has to revel in analysis, although you are or course doing just that and very well. But I don’t think it fair to criticize those who do, and I certainly don’t think it is nitpicking to point out problems that exist.
Just as it is very possible that our young pitchers will continue to improve, it is also possible some won’t. So it is not nitpicking to recognize and identify issues nor does it interfere with pure enjoyment. What it does to identify the issues is allow for the more optimistic to explore just such points as the staff’s youth, the learning curve and factors that suggest improvement is coming while tempering irrational enthusiasm for those so-inclined.
May 27th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
[…] POST OF THE WEEK This week our favorite post was from Rays of Light for their response to DRays Bay complaints about Matt Garza’s 7 1/3 shutout innings. We are […]
May 27th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
I think the “Some people will never be happy” comment is way off base. When you shoot from the hip and resort to a cliche like this, you are a) making assumptions about someone’s state of mind, and b) essentially telling another blogger what s/he should or should not be writing. I know RJ only through his writing, but I’ve always found him to be interesting, articulate and very knowledgeable about…well, a sport (and a team) that all of us embrace. He also has a great sense of humor and a lot of enthusiasm. I’ve never viewed anything he has written as being infused with negativism. IMHO, he is a huge asset to the Rays blogosphere.
I think you are mistaking critical analysis for negativity. And that’s kind of a shame.