View From The Bleachers

Talking Cubs Baseball Since 2003

Thursday

30

January 2014

65

COMMENTS

For The Love Of The… Game?

Written by , Posted in General

Baseball is a wonderful sport and I know that everyone who reads this blog agrees on that (well, maybe it’s questionable whether a few of you like anything, but I digress). This offseason has been long and unforgiving, and depending on your involvement in the happenings (or non-happenings) of the Theo and Jed regime, you have probably experienced a lot of angst as well.

The idea of feeling angst about baseball in the offseason is something that is relatively new to me. You see, before sabermetrics were the trend, before prospects were analyzed to death, and before the rooftops had seats on them, before Twitter was a thing, baseball was just… baseball. It was an escape from the real world – a place where a person could go to get wrapped up in chalk lines, the popping sounds of bats hitting balls, and the snap of the catcher’s mitt when it received 95 MPH fastball.

If a minor-leaguer made his debut people got excited, but poring over his stats in AA against lefties on Sundays versus his AAA stats against a 12-6 curve on Wednesdays was left to the scouts and player development people. Sure, some regular fans my have had a vested interest in prospects, but what mattered to most was the experience of the game. Baseball was heaven on a plot of grass or sand.

The pure, unadulterated love of baseball ran through the veins of fans. They heckled the players they disliked, they lauded the players they loved. People didn’t pick favorites based on WAR, wRC+, UZR, etc, etc. They picked their favorites based on players which helped the team win; because, you know, baseball was a team sport. It took all 9 guys working together to win a game.

But somewhere between then and now the pure love for baseball has been lost in the controversy of the Steroid Era, the recent surfacing of sabermetrics as the “end-all be-all” for a player, the enormous contracts and no-trade clauses, and the growing impatience of the Cubs’ fan base. Arguing with strangers on the internet about frivolous details strips joy out of the sport and makes enemies of people who would normally have been friends (Thanks, Twitter. You jerk!). Civil discussions about have turned into personal attacks.

When baseball season rolls around, everyone needs to attend a local Little League game, and I’m not talking Little League World Series craziness. I’m talking about local kids playing a game. Watch the passion on the boys’ (and sometimes girls’! You go, girls!) faces. Observe the effort they put into every play they make, how they encourage and cheer for each other, how they hustle on and off the field in anticipation of how they can contribute to their team in the next half-inning.

Those kids don’t get paid. They don’t know what WAR or UZR mean. They just play baseball.

That is what baseball should be – pure desire to play a game they love.

What’s so bad about loving baseball without all the extra stuff?

 

 

  • Mark_from_Toronto

    I would view myself as someone that does love baseball in general in spite of many of the factors you mentioned (sabermetrics, twitter, contracts, etc.) I guess since I grew up watching baseball long before all that stuff came about, I tend to not let it cloud my love of the game now. While I can’t say that I would necessarily go to a little league game just to enjoy some baseball, I do often catch games that don’t involve the Cubs (for example I went to a Jays vs. Yankees game here in Toronto last season). Even though I may have no vested interest in either team in a particular game, I can still find it highly enjoyable to watch just because it’s a ball game.

    • Eddie Von White

      I know what you mean. When I lived in San Diego at first I only went to games when the Cubs were in town. My company had 4 season tickets behind first base and I soon found myself going to games every chance I could. I listened to the Padres on the radio all the time. One day when I was working in the yard with the radio on, the Padres blew a lead in the 9th and lost the game. I remember throwing my rake to the ground and muttering “Stupid Padres.” At that moment I realized I had become a fan of the home team even though I didn’t even like the home team (No they weren’t playing the Cubs). I am a baseball fan first. I love the Cubs.

  • Mark_from_Toronto

    I would view myself as someone that does love baseball in general in spite of many of the factors you mentioned (sabermetrics, twitter, contracts, etc.) I guess since I grew up watching baseball long before all that stuff came about, I tend to not let it cloud my love of the game now. While I can’t say that I would necessarily go to a little league game just to enjoy some baseball, I do often catch games that don’t involve the Cubs (for example I went to a Jays vs. Yankees game here in Toronto last season). Even though I may have no vested interest in either team in a particular game, I can still find it highly enjoyable to watch just because it’s a ball game.

    • Eddie Von White

      I know what you mean. When I lived in San Diego at first I only went to games when the Cubs were in town. My company had 4 season tickets behind first base and I soon found myself going to games every chance I could. I listened to the Padres on the radio all the time. One day when I was working in the yard with the radio on, the Padres blew a lead in the 9th and lost the game. I remember throwing my rake to the ground and muttering “Stupid Padres.” At that moment I realized I had become a fan of the home team even though I didn’t even like the home team (No they weren’t playing the Cubs). I am a baseball fan first. I love the Cubs.

  • Noah_I

    My one question: without statistics, how do you know who helps the team win, and to what extent?

    Beyond that, there have always been people who just want to watch the games and have a good time, and people who have analyzed it more statistically. Bill James started writing in the ’70s, and by the ’80s sold enough books to make it his full time career. The only difference between then and now is that the internet allows those people to connect in a way that was impossible before.

  • Noah_I

    My one question: without statistics, how do you know who helps the team win, and to what extent?

    Beyond that, there have always been people who just want to watch the games and have a good time, and people who have analyzed it more statistically. Bill James started writing in the ’70s, and by the ’80s sold enough books to make it his full time career. The only difference between then and now is that the internet allows those people to connect in a way that was impossible before.

  • Katie this is such a fantastic article. Your insight applies to SO much more than just baseball. I love all the wonderful things the Internet has brought us and am hard pressed to remember how we lived without it. In relatively short order there won’t be many people left who did live without it. But as with any major invention, we’re still learning how to manage it. There’s so much bad. In time we as a society will learn how to manage the bad parts. We haven’t yet. And the full impact won’t be known until it’s time to write history books on it, like when the car was invented. Anyway that’s too deep for VFTB but your article is wonderful!

    • PLCB3

      I know what it’s like to live without internet because my dad lives in the Stone Age when it comes to technology. We didn’t get internet at home until I was 16, and we only had dial-up when we got it at first with only 1 phone line and 1 computer. So no one could call because my brother was always hogging the computer. My dad moved into the 21st century 2 years later when he got high-speed internet and a 2nd computer.

      Living without it now sucks, but I kind of feel it’s become an addiction. I am glued to the computer too much. A lot of the time I frittered away on the internet, I could have been working out in the gym. I say I have no time to workout, but I have time to yap away on the computer.

      • Eddie Von White

        I recently went without the Internet for a whole week. At first I missed it, but then I learned how to live without it and actually enjoyed it. Funny thing, the people that really needed to get a hold of me, found a way. The telephone and the front door still work.

      • Jerry in Wisconsin

        I bet you still receive mail in your physical mail box too!

      • Eddie Von White

        Yes. The mailbox is always fun. My wife and I received a hand written thank you letter the other day from an organization we donated money to. I can’t remember when the last time that happened.

      • Good for you, Eddie! We’ve made a conscious effort to not be so connected all the time and it’s wonderful. No one needs to be able to get to me 24 hours a day, I am nowhere near that important.

      • Eddie Von White

        It was actually kind of a freedom experience. I could go about my activities and not feel like I had to be checking online every two seconds.

      • PLCB3

        I had a camping trip a few months ago, and I only took my iPod and phone with me for emergencies. It was great not using the phone at all that weekend. Before my parents got cell phones, there was never any problem. But after getting them, my mom went ballistic. She would always call me when I was on the train home from school to find out where I am. Or she would call me at work to find out when my dad left and what I ate. One day I had enough of her calling me at work and told her she wasn’t allowed to call anymore unless she was ordering pizza.
        Any time I went out for an evening bike ride, she would get mad at me for not taking my phone. I told her taking my phone gives you an opportunity to annoy me. You have abused the phone.

    • Chuck

      I do not care for services such as Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and the myriad of other online “social media” because I do not want people to know about everything I am doing. I believe that it breeds a narcissistic society because most of these things foster a “look at me!!!” attitude.

      I don’t think that young people recognize the dangers of having everything they do in full public view. Maybe I am just paranoid but I have a natural aversion to all things that I think are invading my privacy such as red light cameras, surveillance cameras in public areas, the GPS in my phone, the GPS in my car, cameras on phones, Google Maps/Earth, the NSA monitoring telephone and email, etc… Maybe I have just seen Robocop one too many times…

      • PLCB3

        I think if used correctly, Facebook, Twiiter, etc can be valuable. Facebook is great for keeping in touch with old classmates etc. Twitter, the main reason I use it is to read news, but I will use it to share articles I like or a random thought. My tweets go to facebook. LinkedIn is a great professional social media site. I have gotten 2 job interviews thanks to LinkedIn. Other social media is dumb. You are right though about putting everything in public view. You have to be smart about what you post. You say I fucking hate my job, you can get into trouble. Even if you aren’t friends with the boss, they can still find out. I have never been friends with my bosses on facebook, until I left the job or they left. And I were to work for them again, I would un-friend them. As for posting on facebook, I don’t post every last thing about my life. I’ll post things like something I’ve cooked, or an opinion on a matter, or somewhere I’m going. Like a game or a concert etc. I don’t worry about being stalked. Because only my facebook friends can see my posts. From time to time, I’ll do a test with friends where I will ask them to unfriend me so I can see what my profile looks like to someone who isn’t my FB friend.
        What’s wrong with google maps? It helps you plot out your drive when you need to go somewhere. As for GPS, I don’t have it on my phone or car. I have a GPS unit I bought. GPS is a life-saver.

      • Noah_I

        I agree with this. I have friends who use Facebook to send out a status every morning on what they’re going to be doing that day, and I keep thinking “you’re doing it wrong!” Aside from pictures of my kid, I use Facebook to keep in touch with old friends, and statuses largely for the funny/ridiculous, or to promote if I’m doing something actually special (which is rare, and usually involves said kid). I rarely start a conversation on any controversial topic (politics, largely), but will join them. Twitter has been great for Cubs and baseball stuff generally, and is essentially a necessity if you’re blogging. LinkedIn I haven’t used to its potential, but I know people who have.

      • PLCB3

        I used to write a gazillion political posts a day and it enraged a lot of people. So I decided starting in 2013, that I was only going to write 6 political posts a month.

      • Chuck

        Your friends are making it far too easy to get robbed.

      • Don’t get me wrong, the internet and everything it has to offer has been wonderful for me. I was an early adopter, and I’m married to the love of my life who I met, yes, in an AOL chat room 18 years ago. I was the poster child for internet success when all of my friends were sure I was travelling 650 miles to be hacked up into pieces by an axe murderer. Despite that, I think as the internet has been bad for society as a whole. That will change as it matures. Even 20 years is still very young for such a far reaching invention.

      • Noah_I

        I think the bad things are more apparent than the good things, and the bad things are more universal than the good things, which tend to be personal. I’d say the internet’s biggest flaw is also it’s greatest strength, though: it provides access to so much more information from such a greater range of sources. The problem, as Nate Silver points out in his fantastic book “The Signal and the Noise”, is that this encourages hedgehogs, people who are unwilling to change their opinions independent of what facts they learn. Hedgehogs seem to inherently agree with information that agrees with their viewpoint, while inherently disagreeing with information that doesn’t, independent of the reliability of said information. The internet does this because it supplies a steady stream of information from nearly every viewpoint, and you can always find information that matches your own viewpoint while discarding information that doesn’t.

        Here’s the thing: I’m not positive as the internet matures, if that’s something about human nature that can be changed. I’ve long felt, however, that whatever is the next great society (and I use the term great to mean size and historical dominance, not “yippee, it’s awesome!”) will have significantly greater restrictions on speech and the dissemination of information than the current western world.

      • Jerry in Wisconsin

        I have to disagree with your last statement. The Soviet Empire fell doing precisely what you stated. Eventually the ruling class states something obviously false, and the population starts to wonder what else is not true.
        The next great society will be one where the facts are all out in the open and they have developed criteria to quickly analyse and react to the facts without politics rearanging the truth.

      • Good stuff Noah, especially the hedgehog business. I also disagree with the last statement, I think things will get even more open and indeed they need to despite the “bad.” And I think you may already understand what I meant, but I’ll clarify anyway, by “bad” things I don’t necessarily mean someone got duped by a lover or even that some old guy tried to seduce a teenager. Definitely bad. But I’m talking more about the societal effects like eroding relationships, internet balls, using online time as a babysitter for kids, unhealthy sense of entitlement, etc. There have been big good things too. But in general you’re right, the bad things are bigger and less personal than the small, good, personal things. (As I type this I feel compelled to admit I’d prefer if I could conduct all conversation via text message and banish the blasted telephone for all eternity. LOL.)

      • PLCB3

        I think in regards to phones we’re eventually going to go the way of Lenny. Him and Carl got into a car crash on a recent Simpsons episode, and Carl said someone call 911. Lenny said, “Help! I don’t know how to use the phone on my phone!”

      • Chuck

        Here are my beefs with the various things.
        Google Maps/Earth: I find it extremely creepy that I can zoom in on a satellite image of my old house and see the baseball bases in my old back yard where my kids played wiffle ball. I am somewhat relieved that my new house is still a swath of dirt.
        GPS in car and phone: Unless you have a very old car and/or cell phone, there is a GPS chip in there so “the police can locate you in case of an emergency”. I call BS on this and it is just another way for Big Brother to track your every move. I don’t like it one bit.

      • PLCB3

        Google Earth will do that and I don’t like that. Google maps is totally different though. Don’t know about this GPS chip.

      • Funny enough that “someone’s watching me” stuff doesn’t bother me in the least. They’d get way too bored way too quickly if they ever chose to tune in to how I spend my time. That said no one needs to know via Facebook when I sh!t shower and shave either!

      • PLCB3

        I had a media class in college and one day teacher was discussing the Patriot Act. This one guy said something about it from when he was in the military that there were people who were listening in on the calls, but you could be trying to seal the deal on a million pounds of cocaine and they don’t care.

      • Chuck

        I will continue to wear my tin-foil hat. You know, just in case the Dark Ones return…

      • PLCB3

        Ah concerned about MLB satellites spying on your town are you

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother%27s_Little_Helper

      • Chuck

        Right series creator, wrong animated series.

      • Chuck

        I will continue to wear my tin-foil hat. You know, just in case the Dark Ones return…

  • Katie this is such a fantastic article. Your insight applies to SO much more than just baseball. I love all the wonderful things the Internet has brought us and am hard pressed to remember how we lived without it. In relatively short order there won’t be many people left who did live without it. But as with any major invention, we’re still learning how to manage it. There’s so much bad. In time we as a society will learn how to manage the bad parts. We haven’t yet. And the full impact won’t be known until it’s time to write history books on it, like when the car was invented. Anyway that’s too deep for VFTB but your article is wonderful!

    • AC0000000

      I know what it’s like to live without internet because my dad lives in the Stone Age when it comes to technology. We didn’t get internet at home until I was 16, and we only had dial-up when we got it at first with only 1 phone line and 1 computer. So no one could call because my brother was always hogging the computer. My dad moved into the 21st century 2 years later when he got high-speed internet and a 2nd computer.

      Living without it now sucks, but I kind of feel it’s become an addiction. I am glued to the computer too much. A lot of the time I frittered away on the internet, I could have been working out in the gym. I say I have no time to workout, but I have time to yap away on the computer.

      • Eddie Von White

        I recently went without the Internet for a whole week. At first I missed it, but then I learned how to live without it and actually enjoyed it. Funny thing, the people that really needed to get a hold of me, found a way. The telephone and the front door still work.

      • Good for you, Eddie! We’ve made a conscious effort to not be so connected all the time and it’s wonderful. No one needs to be able to get to me 24 hours a day, I am nowhere near that important.

    • Chuck

      I do not care for services such as Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and the myriad of other online “social media” because I do not want people to know about everything I am doing. I believe that it breeds a narcissistic society because most of these things foster a “look at me!!!” attitude.

      I don’t think that young people recognize the dangers of having everything they do in full public view. Maybe I am just paranoid but I have a natural aversion to all things that I think are invading my privacy such as red light cameras, surveillance cameras in public areas, the GPS in my phone, the GPS in my car, cameras on phones, Google Maps/Earth, the NSA monitoring telephone and email, etc… Maybe I have just seen Robocop one too many times…

      • AC0000000

        I think if used correctly, Facebook, Twiiter, etc can be valuable. Facebook is great for keeping in touch with old classmates etc. Twitter, the main reason I use it is to read news, but I will use it to share articles I like or a random thought. My tweets go to facebook. LinkedIn is a great professional social media site. I have gotten 2 job interviews thanks to LinkedIn. Other social media is dumb. You are right though about putting everything in public view. You have to be smart about what you post. You say I fucking hate my job, you can get into trouble. Even if you aren’t friends with the boss, they can still find out. I have never been friends with my bosses on facebook, until I left the job or they left. And I were to work for them again, I would un-friend them. As for posting on facebook, I don’t post every last thing about my life. I’ll post things like something I’ve cooked, or an opinion on a matter, or somewhere I’m going. Like a game or a concert etc. I don’t worry about being stalked. Because only my facebook friends can see my posts. From time to time, I’ll do a test with friends where I will ask them to unfriend me so I can see what my profile looks like to someone who isn’t my FB friend.
        What’s wrong with google maps? It helps you plot out your drive when you need to go somewhere. As for GPS, I don’t have it on my phone or car. I have a GPS unit I bought. GPS is a life-saver.

      • Noah_I

        I agree with this. I have friends who use Facebook to send out a status every morning on what they’re going to be doing that day, and I keep thinking “you’re doing it wrong!” Aside from pictures of my kid, I use Facebook to keep in touch with old friends, and statuses largely for the funny/ridiculous, or to promote if I’m doing something actually special (which is rare, and usually involves said kid). I rarely start a conversation on any controversial topic (politics, largely), but will join them. Twitter has been great for Cubs and baseball stuff generally, and is essentially a necessity if you’re blogging. LinkedIn I haven’t used to its potential, but I know people who have.

      • AC0000000

        I used to write a gazillion political posts a day and it enraged a lot of people. So I decided starting in 2013, that I was only going to write 6 political posts a month.

      • Chuck

        Your friends are making it far too easy to get robbed.

      • Don’t get me wrong, the internet and everything it has to offer has been wonderful for me. I was an early adopter, and I’m married to the love of my life who I met, yes, in an AOL chat room 18 years ago. I was the poster child for internet success when all of my friends were sure I was travelling 650 miles to be hacked up into pieces by an axe murderer. Despite that, I think as the internet has been bad for society as a whole. That will change as it matures. Even 20 years is still very young for such a far reaching invention.

      • Noah_I

        I think the bad things are more apparent than the good things, and the bad things are more universal than the good things, which tend to be personal. I’d say the internet’s biggest flaw is also it’s greatest strength, though: it provides access to so much more information from such a greater range of sources. The problem, as Nate Silver points out in his fantastic book “The Signal and the Noise”, is that this encourages hedgehogs, people who are unwilling to change their opinions independent of what facts they learn. Hedgehogs seem to inherently agree with information that agrees with their viewpoint, while inherently disagreeing with information that doesn’t, independent of the reliability of said information. The internet does this because it supplies a steady stream of information from nearly every viewpoint, and you can always find information that matches your own viewpoint while discarding information that doesn’t.

        Here’s the thing: I’m not positive as the internet matures, if that’s something about human nature that can be changed. I’ve long felt, however, that whatever is the next great society (and I use the term great to mean size and historical dominance, not “yippee, it’s awesome!”) will have significantly greater restrictions on speech and the dissemination of information than the current western world.

      • Chuck

        Here are my beefs with the various things.
        Google Maps/Earth: I find it extremely creepy that I can zoom in on a satellite image of my old house and see the baseball bases in my old back yard where my kids played wiffle ball. I am somewhat relieved that my new house is still a swath of dirt.
        GPS in car and phone: Unless you have a very old car and/or cell phone, there is a GPS chip in there so “the police can locate you in case of an emergency”. I call BS on this and it is just another way for Big Brother to track your every move. I don’t like it one bit.

  • Chuck

    I would say that i love baseball. I have three sons who all play baseball (one in High School, one on a 12U team and I am coaching a brand new 8U team) and I probably watch approximately 5-7 youth baseball games a week during the season and help with practice several other times.

    I have also been a Cubs fan for as long as I can remember. I grew up in the Chicago area and I try to catch a few I-Cubs games a season. However, my time is a very finite commodity and I would rather spend it on my son’s games than a Cubs game. I would make more of an effort to watch the Cubs if they made an effort to put a quality product on the field. It is that simple. My kids will only play baseball for so long then it is gone forever. The Cubs will always be around.

    BTW: I do keep fairly advanced stats on my teams hitting. I have a spreadsheet that I use.

  • Chuck

    I would say that i love baseball. I have three sons who all play baseball (one in High School, one on a 12U team and I am coaching a brand new 8U team) and I probably watch approximately 5-7 youth baseball games a week during the season and help with practice several other times.

    I have also been a Cubs fan for as long as I can remember. I grew up in the Chicago area and I try to catch a few I-Cubs games a season. However, my time is a very finite commodity and I would rather spend it on my son’s games than a Cubs game. I would make more of an effort to watch the Cubs if they made an effort to put a quality product on the field. It is that simple. My kids will only play baseball for so long then it is gone forever. The Cubs will always be around.

    BTW: I do keep fairly advanced stats on my teams hitting. I have a spreadsheet that I use.

  • Jerry in Wisconsin

    So many excellent thoughts from both the author and all of the commentors. I want to say though that I did not experience any angst this off-season. The only “free agent” that I thought could help the Cubs was Tanaka, but that was not a sure thing. I beleive that the only trades they could have made would have been selling the assets at the low point. Thus the lack of movement was to be expected. I do hope that they do land the top pitcher in next year FA market, as that would then get us to a spot where we can compete.
    As for watching a little league game, when I grew up there were always two older gentlemen who everytime there was a game at the local park, they were there to watch it. They enjoyed the games and they enjoyed the enthuasm and energy with which the kids played the game. It nice getting to know them as well.

  • Jerry in Wisconsin

    So many excellent thoughts from both the author and all of the commentors. I want to say though that I did not experience any angst this off-season. The only “free agent” that I thought could help the Cubs was Tanaka, but that was not a sure thing. I beleive that the only trades they could have made would have been selling the assets at the low point. Thus the lack of movement was to be expected. I do hope that they do land the top pitcher in next year FA market, as that would then get us to a spot where we can compete.
    As for watching a little league game, when I grew up there were always two older gentlemen who everytime there was a game at the local park, they were there to watch it. They enjoyed the games and they enjoyed the enthuasm and energy with which the kids played the game. It nice getting to know them as well.

  • Eddie Von White

    Katie, you hit this one out of the ball park – a Grand-salamy!! I chuckled to myself. I laughed out loud. And I even cried a little inside. Way to go!

  • I like what you’ve done here.

  • I like what you’ve done here.

  • Doug S.

    To me the beauty about baseball is how you can enjoy it on so many levels.

  • I’d like to advocate catching a men’s league game this summer..there is your love of the game. Not only are we paying to play, but the logistics of digging into the batters box without a pissed off wife at home are mind boggling.

  • Doc Raker

    Nothing wrong at all, great job Katie. This is the first year since 2005 I won’t be managing a Little League team, my son is 13 now and off to more serious baseball endeavors if you will. The joy of managing the kids is something I will remember for ever. Every year you get a few studs, a few average players and then the kid who would struggle to get a hit at all the entire season. I always made it my priority to make sure that kid got a hit or succeeded in some way on the field to contribute. Every season that kid would eclipse my and his expectations and when he would get that first hit it wasn’t just him that was happy, the whole team would cheer that kid on and get an emotional boost from his success. And no matter if we won or lost the kids were running around the field with their post game treat in hand chasing and tackling each other. There is nothing like the pure joy of the greatest game of baseball, it can be played and enjoyed on so many levels.

  • Doc Raker

    Nothing wrong at all, great job Katie. This is the first year since 2005 I won’t be managing a Little League team, my son is 13 now and off to more serious baseball endeavors if you will. The joy of managing the kids is something I will remember for ever. Every year you get a few studs, a few average players and then the kid who would struggle to get a hit at all the entire season. I always made it my priority to make sure that kid got a hit or succeeded in some way on the field to contribute. Every season that kid would eclipse my and his expectations and when he would get that first hit it wasn’t just him that was happy, the whole team would cheer that kid on and get an emotional boost from his success. And no matter if we won or lost the kids were running around the field with their post game treat in hand chasing and tackling each other. There is nothing like the pure joy of the greatest game of baseball, it can be played and enjoyed on so many levels.

  • Buddy

    Baseball is one of the few things in the world that humans can’t ruin no matter how hard they try. Beer falls into that category as well.

    • Cheap light beer on drought is cutting it close, Buddy. But I’m with you on this.

      • Buddy

        Even the worst beer I ever had was pretty good.

      • PLCB3

        Including Molsen’s, Busch Light, and Natty Ice?

      • Eddie Von White

        Molsen Long Necks – “Because life is too short.”

      • Doc Raker

        I would not put Molsen’s in the Busch Light category.

      • PLCB3

        It’s pretty bad. Our oldest beer is way better than our neighborino’s oldest beer.

      • Doc Raker

        I would not put Molsen’s in the Busch Light category.

      • AC0000000

        It’s pretty bad. Our oldest beer is way better than our neighborino’s oldest beer.

    • Cheap light beer on drought is cutting it close, Buddy. But I’m with you on this.