Milkit Badly — the final chapter. Hopefully.

I was never in favor of Bradley either. If I had known about this site in February, I would have given you a million thumbs up for your post. Adam Dunn would have been a waaaaay better option. A Lee-Dunn-Ramirez heart of the order looks very scary to me. Those guys would be able to afford enough Cadillacs for every person in the city of Chicago with all the home runs they would hit

Can I get some of you Milton apologists to admit that this guy was a bad signing?

No.

That he had an absolutely crappy year?

Yes.

That, regardless of sample size, BABIP, Nationalized Health Care, or OBP — he didn’t get it done.

Yes.

No one around here has ever denied that Bradley has struggled this year on the field. It is more than annoying to continue to hear the Bradley-haters pretend that the rest of us think that Bradley has been good this year. No one has said this.

It’s time for a game I will call “Fun With Gray Boxes”

Matt says:
April 21, 2009 at 7:38 pm
Yep, a behavioral problem from a guy that hits. He gets the job done when he’s on the field.
Why don’t you guys keep arguing about his off the field trangressions. I don’t see how they make a difference with his OBP. Or anything else he does between the foul lines.

WOWZERS…he gets the job done on the field. Maybe he meant a cricket field. Nice.

Lets chase that with:

dave l says:
April 23, 2009 at 1:18 am
Oh my… cancer? Really? Didn’t Boston win with Manny Ramirez?
Clubhouse chemistry is the most overrated thing in all of old-school baseball thought.

huh? really? what? and you base this on?

and maybe a little:

1. dave says:
April 19, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Sherm… let me introduce you to something called sample size.
It is WAY too early to make any kind of judgment on Bradley.
And to only look at MB’s batting average completely ignores that he HAS contributed by getting on base at a fairly decent clip, especially considering his low batting average that will not stay that low.

well, at that point Bradley was hitting .089 or some such, so Dave was right about his batting average not staying that low.

how about:

1. Matt says:
April 20, 2009 at 11:53 am
Except he doesn’t. He’s had three incidents in which the media has replayed over and over, soe every makes him out to be a friggin’ headcase that has these issues ever other game.

Good thing he didn’t turn out to be a headcase here.

or:

1. Matt says:
April 20, 2009 at 11:53 am
Except he doesn’t. He’s had three incidents in which the media has replayed over and over, soe every makes him out to be a friggin’ headcase that has these issues ever other game.

let ME introduce YOU to something call off field incident and career-long malcontent sample size.

how about:

1. Matt says:
April 21, 2009 at 11:44 am
No, three incidents overblown by media attention. The media keeps on harping over them, because it’s the only story they can get out of this guy. They bring up Bartman evey chance they get, why won’t they do the same here? It’s pathetic.
Who’s the AA middle infielder? If you’re talking about Miles, you’re dead wrong.

still with the 3 off field issues. How about 3 this week.

followed by this genius rebuttal:

1. Matt says:
April 21, 2009 at 11:45 am
My guess is Aaron Miles, which once again shows flawed thinking.

hahahahahahaha….

and finally:

1. cap’n obvious says:
April 21, 2009 at 12:10 pm
I know I will regret further engaging Dave and Matt, whom I am certain will take a break from slurping their Milton Bradley and Aaron Miles kool-aid to respond, even though the following facts should really shut them up about Milkit. I am just wondering, which three incidents you are referring to from the following list:
Bradley episodes during his baseball career:
April 1999: While playing for Montreal’s Double-A affiliate at Harrisburg, Pa., he was suspended for seven games for spitting gum at an umpire after being ejected. The ejection came for charging the mound after being hit by a pitch.
April 2002: As a member of the Cleveland Indians, Bradley was removed from a Cleveland restaurant after he refused to leave. According to the EMS report, he was “severely intoxicated.”
April 1, 2004: Indians manager Eric Wedge determined Bradley failed to run out a pop-up that fell for a single during an exhibition game and removed Bradley from the game. Four days later, Bradley was traded to the Los Angeles Dodgers.
June 1, 2004: Bradley dumped a bag of baseballs near third base, delaying the game, soon after being ejected.
Sept. 28, 2004: Bradley, playing right field at Dodger Stadium, responded to a fan who threw a bottle in his direction by walking over the stands and slam-dunking the bottle back. He was ejected and removed his jersey on his way off the field.
Oct. 6, 2004: Bradley called Los Angeles Times writer Jason Reid, who is a black, an “Uncle Tom” after Game 1 of the Dodgers-St. Louis Cardinals Division Series in St. Louis.
December 2004: Bradley served three days in an Ohio jail for what his agent said was the resolution of two traffic-related incidents. In one, Bradley was charged with refusing to sign a speeding ticket and then driving away. In the other, he pleaded guilty to yelling at a police officer.
June 28-July 30, 2005: According to municipal records in Redondo Beach, Calif., police were called to Bradley’s home three times to respond to complaints of domestic violence. He wasn’t arrested.
Aug. 20, 2005: Bradley and Dodgers teammate Jeff Kent got into heated exchange during a game after Kent accused Bradley of not hustling. Bradley said Kent, who had issues with Barry Bonds when both played for the San Francisco Giants, has difficulty dealing with black players.
Sept. 23, 2007: As a member of the San Diego Padres, Bradley was lost for the last week of the season when he suffered a knee injury following a confrontation with first base umpire Mike Winters that resulted in Bradley being ejected. Bradley was hurt when Padres manager Bud Black wrestled him to the ground during Bradley’s argument with Winters. Major League Baseball later confirmed Winters used profane language during the argument and suspended him for the rest of the regular season and the post-season.
AND booted from his first Wrigley Field appearance in a Cub uniform AND suspended for THAT temper tantrum.
This is a bad guy, fellas. All this in addition to the many trips to the DL. He gets $10 million this year and next from the Cubs. Name me one other MLB player (OK, other than Sheffield)with this many meltdowns or this track record of acting like a malcontent baby…after you finish your kool-aids…

feel free to add to the above list, A. Alienating every MLB umpire, B. Alienating every Chicago media member, C. Alienating 100 years of Cub fans.

Thank you for reading.

Four weeks into the season and all of you wanted him gone.

Actually, I never wanted him in the first place. Bad Guy.

Bradley was much better in the second half

No argument here, although, he was so bad in the first half this could hardly be helped.

The context is that there were (and still are) Bradley apologists, and there were thse of us that knew this would end badly. I just wanted to point out who was who.

I still stand by my argument that clubhouse chemistry is highly overrated.

Chemistry doesn’t create wins. Wins creates chemistry. No one would care about Bradley’s comments if he had performed well, and the Cubs were winning. I would much rather have a winning team where people hate each other than a losing team with everyone being lovey-dovey.

And I still stand by my argument that it was way to early to judge Bradley’s performance, and I would argue that it is much more likely that Bradley rebounds next year than continuing to slug over 50 points below his career numbers and over 150 points below what he did in the previous two years.

Let me be very clear, even though you all will continue to take myself and MJ out of context and pretend that we are saying things that we are not saying. Milton Bradley has simply not been good enough this year. Period. But he a) has hardly been the Cubs biggest problem (see Soto, Soriano, Fontenot, injuries, etc), b) is likely to perform better next year, and c) wins create chemistry.

Of course, I am still waiting for the Bradley-haters to at least be consistent and hate Zambrano or Soriano also.

One more thing:

DeRosa: .253/.323/.434 OPS: .757
Bradley: .257/.378/.397 OPS: .775

Too bad the Cubs didn’t have DeRosa, eh?

UPDATE: Some more context… DeRosa has had 339 runners on base this year to drive in. Bradley has had 289. DeRosa has been better with RISP this year (762 OPS vs 701 OPS), as Bradley has really struggled in those situations. But RBI numbers are extremely situational dependent.

When people throw stats out there, I really wish they understood what the numbers said and didn’t say.

What they ought to do is an RBI percentage of sorts. Like calculate how many RBI chances each player had when they batted and then divide the number of RBIs they had over the # of chances they had to get a ribbie

Dave beat me to it. DeRosa’s stats are terrible as a Cardinal. And those 72 RBI’s? Only 22 of them are with St. Louis, so you could say he hasn’t really done anything to help the Cards win. I’d say Matt Holliday was the pick up that put them over the top. Not, DeRosa.

Of course, I am still waiting for the Bradley-haters to at least be consistent and hate Zambrano or Soriano also.

I’m in total agreement with you on that one and on the fact that we’ve had bigger issues than Bradley (Soriano, Zambrano, Soto, and Ramirez’s injury w/out a backup plan).

Bradley has not been a detriment in RF, unlike his couter-part in LF and our “Ace” pitcher. Has his batting been pretty weak? Yep. Should he have kept his mouth shut in the last few weeks? Yep. Did the media and the fans goad him into feeling the way he feels and then speaking about it? Yep.

Fans should be livid with Zambrano, but you rarely hear that here. There’s been some grousing about Soto and Soriano, but nothing compared to the scathing hatred of Bradley.

Lets shift to “So now what” gear.
What are the odds on Bradley being a Cub in 2010? They would be zero if he weren’t owed about 266 Escalades (at 75K each, by the way nice caddy reference earlier Terrelle)over the next 2 years. You know, if you look at it that way, maybe he can be dumped after all. It doesn’t bother me to dump that many Cadillacs, so whats the big deal if it is cash. Trade him to the Gnats, eat his contract, and find the guy we were looking for last off season.
I guess I’d put the odds of Milkit as a Cub about 10% next year.

Today Bruce Miles (the guy who did the interview that got Milton suspended) said that it is 100 % that he will not return. I tend to agree. I think he is being made a scape goat. At the same time he is able to be made the scape goat because of things he has said. If he doesn’t criticize the fans, or say that he is playing harder than everyone else on the field, or say that negativity is why the team hasn’t won in 100 years he is not suspended and it doesn’t look like Hendry is maing him the fall guy.

One, congrats on taking Paul Sullivan seriously. He, along with Phil Rogers are the two reason I cancelled our Tribune subscription. Total crap writing, those two guys write more about player personalities than they do about the games on the field. Crap writing, for a crap paper.

Capn’ obvious get’s an A plus on his research piece, outstanding work.

Really? Copy and paste from one comment section back on April 21?

So the difference in the intelectual honesty between the saber’s and the bigger picture character matters people is obvious and stark.

Once again, I have to enlighten you newbies to VFTB that I am NOT a sabermatric guy. I’ve written about many times. I go with my gut. The numbers are just there to sway my decisions or way of thinking, from time to time.

Clubhouse chemistry is overrated. I’ve played on teams with terrible chemistry and we won. I’ve played on teams with awesome chemistry and we were terrible. It’s a media/fan myth, something to make sense of why what should be a superior team is losing.

I can remember reading others who have said similar things about being wrong about Dlee.

I went back to try and find those a week or so ago, and to be honest, no one even mentions him since he started hitting. It’s like people suddenly “forget” about what was said.

To hope or assume Bradley will post better numbers next year because of past numbers is simply just that, an assumption or a blind hope in the numbers.

But you should. His career numbers have shown that. Just like all of you doubted DLee. He’s proven you wrong. Baseball has a funny way of evening things out. One bad year, equals a good year somewhere else down the line.

I’m not condoning Milton in any of this. He should have kept his mouth shut, but there’s more to this than just Milton. Hendry and Lou should be getting some serious heat, as well. This is beginning to look familiar, like the Sosa deal where they found a scapegoat for the season’s failures. This move puts the Cubs in a real bad place. How do even trade a guy that’s had a bad year, then you suspend him for behavior? You eat his contract. Which is just awful. Then again, Mr. Hendry seems to accel at dumping contracts this year, yet couldn’t keep club house good guys like Wood and DeRosa due to to much money.

Hendry should be suspended, then fired. Case closed.

Look at Soriano and how many Soriano jerseys are around. Look at how fast the boos turn to cheers for that guy.

I went to game a few weeks ago, and Soriano K’ed three times. HE was being cheered as much that third at bat, as he was the first one. WHY?????

I was one who wanted Milton to work out, and thought it a reasonable chance to take, given his career numbers and the fact that players almost universally like to become Cubs. Well, I was wrong and so was Jim Hendry. DoDO Occurs (shit happens). Not all gambles pay off, and a few get disastrous. Give me Jim Hendry any day over the line of Pirate GMs that don’t even try.
Did that one move cost the Cubs the season?, I’m not sure, but in hindsight, maybe. It’s awfully rare that team mates don’t have your back, but what is in the papers and online today from current Cub players speaks volumes. I thought I was going to have to wait until Fantasy camp to get the real story, and it may still be that way, but there is no denying Boardgame was a bad thing for the team we all love.
About the only good thing you can say about him is that he tried to play ball on the field, (I agree with Dave here) but it’s apparent he will be elsewhere next year regardless of cost, because he would not play ball with his own team mates.

I just had to add this unrelated note, my spellchecker came up with “irregardless” for regardless. Somebody shoot me.

Dennis Rodman once said chemistry is a class you take in high school or college. I agree with him

My point is that Bradley is Bradley. There are no numbers to prove he will be a headcase, but we do know he is batting 1.000 when it comes to doing this with every team and every place he has been. I don’t know why Hendry thought it would be different. Of course you expect that his offensive numbers from the past will repeat themselves here. It shouldn’t surprise us that the “character” issues would repeat themselves also.

You know none of this explains why Miles was allowed to pinch hit last night.

You guys are such Phonies: If he hit like Sosa you would have ignored his actions just like you did with Sammy Slugger for 10 years. Character? Come on look at the jerks that have been allowed to play hear. It is an attitude thing. You think Zimbrano isn’t a club house cancer?

For the record, I think stats tell quite a bit of the story, I just don’t like some of the sabermetrics like BABIP that really tell nothing.

As far as chemistry is concerned, I think the for the Cubs it is more important than most other MLB teams, due to teh close proximity in the clubhouse, and the 100 year drought. If Bradley acts like an ass in the clubhouse for, say, the Giants, everyone in that clubhouse can just move across the room a la Barry Bonds.

There was no research, as Matt points out, it was from 2 or 3 days I vividly remembered in April where Dave and Matt’s club was defending the Bradley signing.

The Aron Miles stuff was just a bonus. Can we at LEAST agree that you were wrong about him, Matt? Or will you be arguing for him to be the opening day 2B next season?

Derosa’s numbers have been pretty bad this year…is amazing he’s had that many RISP hitting behind Pujols and Holliday, as they seem to drive in everyone every time they are at the dish.

Make a bet? If this is true, Bradley won’t be playing baseball next year. I am willing to bet you that he will be playing somewhere, whether that is on the Cubs or elsewhere.

If this is true then the Cubs will eat part or all of his contract to get him out of the organization. I am willing to bet he will not be playing for the Cubs while the Cubs pay all or a portion of his contract. No one will trade for him straight up and assume the liability of his contract. Like I said, he will be playing in a small market with the Cubs paying a portion of his contract if he plays at all.

How much would you like to bet that Bradley will not be playing for the Cubs next year and the Cubs will pay a portion or all of his contract for him to leave?

I think a small market team would take a chance on him if they aren’t paying for him. He will not get another big contract from any other team at this point in his career. Value shoppers are all that will be interested in Bradley, no top shelf for Milton, he will be in the closeout aisle until he leaves the game. The sooner the better.

So how much? [sic]

The Aron Miles stuff was just a bonus. Can we at LEAST agree that you were wrong about him, Matt? Or will you be arguing for him to be the opening day 2B next season?

Where have I ever said I liked Aaron Miles? Your beloved leader sherm was the one that liked that signing. Not me.

and I am Sherm’s leader. He is beloved, however.

Lizzie- Bradley is not the only reason for the Cubs poor year, I am sure Hendry and Ricketts understand that. Making Bradley jetsam is just the start to a new year. Putting Zambrano on a treadmill wouldn’t be a bad thing to do also.

Did anyone catch the ESPN broadcast Sunday night in which they were talking about the Cubs making Fox a 2b man. What a dream that would be.

FWIW, this isn’t true. He wasn’t a so-called “headcase” last year in Texas. Texas, from what I understand, was actually quite happy with him but decided that they couldn’t afford him/had other internal options.

In Texas he went into the visiting team’s announce booth because he didn’t like what they said about him and he wanted to confront the announcers. Who does that?

What about those of us who believe the both character and stats matter? I think chemistry does matter, but not all the time and it isn’t the end-all be-all of a team. I believe past stats are a good indicator of what may happen in the future. But am I unintelligent for not agreeing 100% with you, Doc?

I never said stats don’t matter. It seems that we do agree, you seem to have misunderstood me. Stat’s, character, chemistry is all part of the bigger picture of the greatest game of baseball.

If someone doesn’t understand how hasbro’s lack of professionalism has hurt himself, the Cubs and his past teams then they just don’t understand the bigger picture. Understanding the bigger picture in baseball or in any team sport is very helpful in understanding how to be successful in life.

If this is true then the Cubs will eat part or all of his contract to get him out of the organization.

But that is not what you said. You said, very clearly, that Bradley was not worth the trouble, and everyone in baseball knew it. Now you are saying that there are teams that will be willing to take Bradley if the Cubs eat some of the contract. Which one is it?

How much would you like to bet that Bradley will not be playing for the Cubs next year and the Cubs will pay a portion or all of his contract for him to leave?

Why would I take that bet? I don’t think it is likely that Bradley is on the team next year, and I expect the Cubs to have to pick up some of his contract if he is traded.

You see, you claimed something as fact that almost assuredly is not true, and I called you on it. And then you respond with some stupid bet that had nothing to do with what I said.

I never said stats don’t matter.

Yea… you never said they didn’t matter. You just bash them, and those that you use them, every chance you get.

By the way… I am still waiting for that one example of where I have been “intellectually dishonest.” Can you find one for me?

In fact, this is the only thing I wrote that day, that I will say I was wrong in:

Hendry is not trading and certainly not releasing MB. And I don’t think you’ll ever see a GM say a player is a head case. Not sure the MLBPA would take to kindly to that.

Everything else posted by Cap’n is not from the said date of his quotes. I’d love to know what date they are from. I’m not saying I didn’t post them, but they’re clearly being used from somewhere else, which is most certainly “intellectually dishonest.”

I am still waiting for that one example of where I have been “intellectually dishonest.”

**crickets**

I am just asking for one, Doc. Can you do it?

I truly hope Doc’s wife is okay.

Hope everything is okay with Doc’s wife!

I’m sure we can all have another rousing debate when he returns.

The baseball world now knows Bradley is more trouble than his numbers are worth. He has burned another bridge. Most likely the Cubs will trade him and eat the majority of his contract and Bradley will live out his contract in a small market where the media and fans don’t expect much.

Dave & MJ- That grey box is from my post on this thread #23. Talk about taking things out of context and misquoting. I cleary state that the Cubs will trade Bradley to a small market team with the Cubs paying a majority of his contract. I guess you need everything to be very literal. I should have said everyone in baseball now knows Bradley isn’t worth a big contract. A small market team that doesn’t invest big money in him can take a chance on him and cut him if he becomes a problem with the Cubs being responsible for his contract. I do not believe he will get another large contract in the future. Bradley is now relegated to ‘well take a flyer on him since it won’t cost us much’ territory [sic].

To take just the first sentence of that paragraph and claim I said Bradley would be out of baseball is either intelectually dishonest, or you didn’t bother to read the entire paragraph and drew the wrong conclusion from the first sentence or you read the entire paragraph and just aren’t smart enough to comprehend it. Whichever it is you misunderstood. I continue the same thought in post 42. I am not changing what I say, you are misunderstanding or maybe I just don’t write as clearly as I should.

Can I get some of you Milton apologists to admit that this guy was a bad signing?
No.

Dave- You won’t admit that Bradley was a bad signing? At what point is he a bad signing for you? After the Cubs trade him and eat $20M?

Yea… you never said they didn’t matter. You just bash them, and those that you use them, every chance you get.

I disagree with someone like yourself who only seems to take stats to matter, and don’t take much else to matter. Now, even after Bradley has proved to be a cancer, a clubhouse distraction you still don’t get it. So be it. Bradley was a bad signing and everyone but you seems to know it. It’s not that big of deal, it’s just a conversation about baseball. We disagree.

Thanks for the good cheer, my wife is doing well, she had surgery today and will be back in the starting line up within 48 hours. Thanks.

Oh… and glad that your wife is doing well.

That’s the problem Rob, no one gave Bradley a chance, including most on this board. Just go to sherm’s post on April 21st. Heck even in spring training they wanted to sell him down the river, after he took himself out for a sore hamstring. That was the first game! Of Spring Training! How can you bad mouth a guy in the first Spring Training game?

Bradley’s signing was strictly about his numbers, from last year, and nothing else. Hendry saw something he thought was worth the behavioral gamble. Honestly, I thought he’d fit in, as he was very quiet last year, and I was impressed by what he’d done last year too.

Soriano is not likeable. At least not in my eyes. He’s lazy. At least Bradley hustled and showed emotion.