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August 2009

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Morning Cup O'Joe

Written by , Posted in General

One of the features this off-season will be a segment called Morning Cup O’Joe. This can range from trivia to discussions to links to, well just about anything. Seeing that I can’t possibly imagine that anyone wants to talk about last night’s game, I figured we’d bust this out a little early. Then again, maybe it’s not too early, seeing that our season is done. My question to you is this:

If you could put Alfonso Soriano on waivers right now and actually see someone claim him, would you let him go for nothing? Also, assuming you do, would you be fine with Jake Fox playing LF full time next year?

You know my Soriano hate and my Jake Fox love, so I think you know what my answer would be.

Discuss:

  • MJ

    I wouldn’t let someone take him for nothing. That being said, I think he’d only be claimed by someone else if they thought he could be had for nothing. So it’s a moot point, I guess.

    At this point, Fox’s defense is no worse than Soriano’s, except that he at least shows some hustle. So I think that’d be a wash.

  • Kris

    Soriano can go, but I’m not sure anyone is going to want him. Really–Fox and Fuld are fine with me, because at least they’re going to give it their all.

    I’ll throw Zambrano out there, too. I know he’s coming back from an injury, but that was pathetic regardless. I’m glad he “felt good” out there, because I was feeling rather nauseous at home watching him.

  • cap’n obvious

    Another team wouldn’t be taking Soriano for “nothing.” They’d have to assume the hideous contract he has guaranteed. My feeling is that nobody would take him at this point. He is slow, oft injured, and a poor defender. If the Cubs could hook his bat up to a turbine, maybe they could recoup some of the lost dough in reduced power costs…the guy is a windmill.

  • MJ

    By nothing, I meant personnel.

  • Seymour Butts

    I actually had this conversation with myself last night and yes I would let him go or nothing but the salary relief. He appears to be at the end of the productive part of his career, and even if a change of scenery would reinvigorate him, it requires moving elsewhere. A couple of prospects would be nice, but the real goal is to dump his salary. A more likely scenario is an off season “trade”, where the Cubs eat a lot of that contract (see a rod).I’d be OK with Jake, he’s no worse than alf in the outfield, and can get time in at 3rd as well.

    The real off season question is, do you try to blow it up, or paste together a few more vets for another right now try. There is no good reason these same guys who won 97 last year suck so bad this year. But they do. My hope was still present until last night, 15 Gregging runs to the Nats??? How the Gregg does that Gregg happen.
    Gregg ’em.

  • If someone is dumb enough to claim a 33-year-old with injury issues that has five more years on his deal, then go for it. Problem is that I don’t think he can just go through trade waivers and be dumped without his permission, since he’s got a full no-trade clause (thanks to Cot’s Baseball Contracts).

    • Problem is that I don’t think he can just go through trade waivers and be dumped without his permission, since he’s got a full no-trade clause (thanks to Cot’s Baseball Contracts).

      As far as I know, and I’ll look into this a little more, the no trade does not come into play when waivers are involved. The only time it would come into play is if a player is waived, claimed, and then pulled back for a trade to be worked out. In the case of Alex Rios to the White Sox, they put in a claim and Toronto simply let him go for nothing but the Sox assuming his contract. Something similar happened with Randy Myers awhile back, but that was more of a block on the part of the team that claimed and then it resulted in egg on their face.

  • cubbiedude

    We have too much invested in Mr. Soriano to just let him go.

    We owe it to ourselves to do a thorough professional examination of this guy (starting immediately). If there is a physical, mental or emotional defect which can be identified and fixed, ie., if he can be repaired, rehabbed, reused or recycled, then we fix the problem and move forward.

    But if he’s broken and can’t be fixed, dump da chump.

    Nothin’ personal. It’s business.

  • Kris

    I think what drives me bonkers with Soriano is that the guy has a heck of an arm but has no hustle to go with it. Useless combination!

  • Thanks to Biz of Baseball for this

    A player with a no-trade clause who is claimed on Major League waivers must be pulled back if the player’s no-trade clause allows him to block a deal to the claiming club. However, the player may waive the no-trade clause and join the claiming club.

    So no matter what the Cubs as an organization wants, Fonzie has the right to block moving anywhere. I’ve not been one to call for Hendry’s head, but I think a change is needed now, as all these bad deals he’s handed out start to stink up the roster. Part of me feels like it’d be too nice to him to force him out so he wouldn’t have to watch the mess this team is becoming with the aging roster, but maybe someone can make chicken salad out of this roster.

  • Doug

    Goodbye Alphonso.
    Just go.
    I don’t want anything for you.
    The Cubs IQ raises significantly with Soriano’s departure.

  • MJ

    I’ve not been one to call for Hendry’s head, but I think a change is needed now, as all these bad deals he’s handed out start to stink up the roster.

    Let me get this straight, a GM that got a club to the playoffs three out of his seven years at the helm, two of those in the past three years, and we need a change?

    We’ve had four managers, mutiple hitting coaches, third base coaches, pitching coaches….how much change do we need? The players on the FIELD did not perform as they should this year. I fail to see how that is Hendry’s fault.

  • MGAD

    Very good point, MJ. Most of the blame for the Cubs this season has to go to the players. They are paid to perform. The amount they are paid relates to their recent history of past performance. This year, many on our roster have not lived up to that performance history. That is the players fault. Let’s not pass the blame….

  • Mastrick

    I think the discussion is somewhat academic because no team will take Soriano for assumption of salary. A more realistic approach is going to be one of the following: 1. Order Soriano to get a smaller bat and cut down on his swing (every day bench player if he doesn’t) or 2. Eat some of his salary and trade him for a minor league prospect.

    Of the two I favor the first approach, at least insofar as 2010 is concerned. Soriano has to be given a very clear understanding by both Piniella and Hendry that his 2009 performance is not acceptable and will not be tolerated. For the rest of the season I favor giving Soriano a third to a half the remaining games if only to see what Fox can do and get Soriano’s undivided attention. Give him a chance to show something but also let him ride the pine and watch the rooks, he needs to come to spring training with something to prove next year.

  • I would love to just dump Soriano and his contract on someone else for nothing but what are the odds.

    I would like to see him go to a lighter bat but his power depends on the bigger bat. He has a big long swing and guys with big long swings don’t hit for power with light bats. Guys with short compact swings hit for power with smaller bats, ala Barry Bonds. So I fear that if he went to a lighter bat and changed his swing a bit he would be so out of whack it would then be hopeless, more so than now. He needs more strength so he can control that big bat better, maybe another cycle of the juice or just some good old fashion work in the gym.

    I would also dump Bradley, Miles and trade Zambrano if we could get some prospects. Then use the freedup salary to sign some new players.

    Maybe we can trade Zambrano for Rich Hill?

  • Seymour Butts

    I would also dump Bradley, Miles and trade Zambrano if we could get some prospects. Then use the freedup salary to sign some new players.

    And just exactly what kind of prospects do you think Miles would net? We’d be lucky to get a purple goat with the number 4 shaved on his side out of some lady’s trunk. At least then we could have tacos.

  • MJ

    Mmmmmm. Tacos.

  • Let me get this straight, a GM that got a club to the playoffs three out of his seven years at the helm, two of those in the past three years, and we need a change?

    See, that’s part of the problem. His team got to the playoffs last year. He had one or two (Dempster and Wood, though I may be missing someone) major free agents to try to resign. He did one, then let the other go, and I can’t complain about that. Then he tried to “rearrange” the parts of an offense that led the league the year before and got rid of the team’s MVP (Derosa) for three minor league pitchers, then signed his replacement off a decent year, which just happened to be his career year (Miles).

    And normally I lean toward stats, but after the clubhouse leaders left, he replaced one of them with a very temperamental guy in Bradley. A guy who can’t take getting booed, much like Sosa. And now he’s still stuck on the booing in late August. He’s got a backloaded contract, making $9 and $12 mil the next two years.

    The worst part is yet to come. Hendry signed Soriano to this outrageous deal that has him getting $18 million the next FIVE YEARS! And Fonzie’s 33 now! A “speed” guy at 33 is not a good investment. He also signed backloaded deals to Lee and Ramirez, but there are no complaints today since Lee is having a solid year and Ramirez has been fighting that separated shoulder.

    This offseason, Hendry’s gotta reload the bullpen or fight arbitration battles with Heilman, Cotts and Gregg. He has to decide to keep Harden or let him go (maybe that’s your next discussion point, Joe), plus fix 2B, figure out what to do with Bradley which might open up RF and find a viable backup to Aramis (apparently Lou isn’t fond of Fox there). After last offseason when he tinkered too much, I don’t know that I trust him to make those decisions anymore. Again, I defended Hendry for a while, but his window with these players is closing rapidly, and the contracts he handed out look to drag this team back to the early 90s era when this team was so awful.

  • MJ

    Then he tried to “rearrange” the parts of an offense that led the league the year before and got rid of the team’s MVP (Derosa) for three minor league pitchers, then signed his replacement off a decent year, which just happened to be his career year (Miles).

    Since I’m arguing with people on poor Dave Kaplan’s Facebook page, might was well here too. 😆 DeRosa has sucked balls this year. His line is almost exactly the same as Bradley. So there wasn’t a drop off there. We can argue about him being a clubhouse leader, but we’ll never really know. His versatility was missed. Hendry moved him when he had the most value, and look how much Cleveland got for him. He just hasn’t produced either. I will agree on Aaron Miles, although there are some here that thought that was a good signing. I wanted Felipe Lopez from the get go.

    And now he’s still stuck on the booing in late August.

    And I’m sorry, but that shouldn’t be happening. There are guys that have sucked a hell of a lot worse than him this year, and not even looked like they care to be out there (I’m looking at you Mr. Soriano). I am not a Bradley fan, but I think he’s gotten a bum deal from the fans since he got here. He’s played defense as well as DeRosa did out there, and probably caught a few balls he wouldn’t have. He hustles, and sometimes gets hurt doing it. That’s more than I can say for a lot of guys.

    Hendry’s gotta reload the bullpen or fight arbitration battles with Heilman, Cotts and Gregg.

    I’m not sure those are even fights. They’re Cubs careers are over.

    After last offseason when he tinkered too much, I don’t know that I trust him to make those decisions anymore.

    Absolutely. Lou has wanted to be more left handed, he went out and did that, and then got screwed in trying to Peavy. He left himself open for some of the personnel issues. You can’t blame a guy for the rash of injuries, and players just not playing to their potential. Hendry has always been aggresive, and this time it didn’t pay off. I’d rather that, then him sit with his thumb up his butt.

    He’s got a tremendous job in front of him this offseason, and I think he’d be the first to tell everyone he didn’t do a good job this year. I think his track record over the past seven years shows he can turn it around pretty quick.

  • lizzie

    DeRosa has sucked balls this year.

    Nice. 😆

  • Terrelle Pryor 2

    Yes, if I could get rid of Soriano’s contract I would do it in a heartbeat. Same with the gameboard. What a horrible contract that was. 2011 would be vested with only 75 games played in 2009. What an idiotic idea that was. Adam Dunn would have cost the same money, and he is a much better player and also hits left handed. And he’s a beast. In 2005, I believe he hit 40+ HRs with a broken hand the entire season

    As for Soriano, he is a wild swinger who has no discipline. His power is what got him his contract. If you take away his power, he is Neifi Jr.

  • And just exactly what kind of prospects do you think Miles would net? We’d be lucky to get a purple goat with the number 4 shaved on his side out of some lady’s trunk. At least then we could have tacos.

    I think a goat would be an even trade. They should have ‘Bring your goat day’ to the ballpark. We could rid the curse.

  • Adam Dunn would have cost the same money, and he is a much better player and also hits left handed.

    Let me know when Dunn becomes a right fielder.

  • Terrelle Pryor 2

    Move Soriano to 2B, play Dunn in LF

  • Move Soriano to 2B, play Dunn in LF

    You cannot be serious.

    You know how bad Soriano is in LF? Dunn is arguably worse. And Soriano’s defense at 2b is probably worse than Dunn or Soriano in LF.

    Oh yea… and you still need a RFer then.

  • Terrelle Pryor 2

    Why not move one of them to RF then?

  • Because neither of them can even play LF.

  • Terrelle Pryor 2

    Fine, then I suggest we should have gotten Abreu

  • Same with the gameboard. What a horrible contract that was. 2011 would be vested with only 75 games played in 2009. What an idiotic idea that was. Adam Dunn would have cost the same money, and he is a much better player and also hits left handed. And he’s a beast. In 2005, I believe he hit 40+ HRs with a broken hand the entire season

    Terrelle- I think most everyone other than Dave and MJ agree that there were much better choices for the Cubs other than boardgame. Dunn, Abreu, Andre Dawson, Sherms cartoon to name a few.

  • Terrelle Pryor 2

    I don’t know why we didn’t try to convince Edmonds to play another year? He bats, uhm LEFT-HANDED!

  • And Edmonds swing is perfect for Wrigley field. He has that 369 foot drive to left center down pretty good. Edmonds could have been a good RF for sure.

  • Terrelle Pryor 2

    It sure is. Soriano just went yard. He still sucks

  • I’d let him go. Even if the Cubs don’t get anything back.

    But, I’m using that salary to get someone better than Jake Fox. Have we learned nothing from the Mike Fontenot experiment? The more these marginal major leaguers (Fox, Hoffpauir, Fontenot, Fuld) play, the more they’ll be exposed for the players they are.

  • Terrelle Pryor 2

    You don’t think these guys can become legit everyday players like Theriot did when given the chance? Quite frankly, I think if Murton had been given the chance, he could have been a quality everyday player

  • There’s a reason they’ve been in the minor leagues until their mid to late 20s. Theriot is the exception, not the rule.