Yuck Yuck Yuck Yuck Yuck!!!!! Is there another way to describe last night that I’m not aware of? This was a game we should’ve won, but could’ve lost by even more. Perhaps some are saying “I hate Derrek Lee, Lou Piniella, Carlos Zambrano and Larry Rothschild” There are a lot of emotions that Cub fans can come away from this game with and all would be valid. Ultimately, though, we need to relax and understand that despite the little slump and Z not feeling well, we’re still the best team in the NL right now. With that being said, on to the notes.
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Carlos Zambrano left the game after the 5th inning and told Rothschild that he wasn’t feeling good. Maybe I’m wrong, but didn’t I just say yesterday that he should rest for more than two extra days? If he wasn’t feeling well coming into the game, which was obviously the case because of the dead arm, he should have been on the bench for a week or two to give that arm some time to heal itself naturally. Two days don’t do it. He’s supposed to see Dr. Stephen Gryzlo today to evaluate him. My hope is that they shut him down for a week or two if all is well. I blame Lou and Larry and Z for this. -
Derrek Lee is my arch enemy. He is by far my least favorite Cub. When he came up in the 8th inning and Len Kasper was psyched about the bases loaded situation the Cubs found themselves in, I sat there thinking to myself that Lee would hit into a double play and kill this rally. He had a chance in game one to drive in some runs late and lined out. He had a big opportunity to essentially win the game last night and hit into the double play. He’s not a clutch player for this team and he’s definitely not a number three hitter. If Lou is serious about lineup changes, then it’s time for Aramis Ramirez to be the third hitter in this lineup.
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In the 9th inning, Ramirez reached on a walk and my immediate thought was whether or not the Cubs would bunt with DeRosa. They did, and it eventually didn’t yield a run. Would you have told your guy to bunt, given the situation or would you have called for him to swing away. I was fine with the sac bunt, but I think you could make a valid case for DeRosa to be up there swinging based on how well he’s been hitting this season.
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Props to Kosuke Fukudome for coming in late in the game, falling into an 0-2 count and eventually working a walk. If he can do things like that, there is no question in my mind that his slump will sort itself out. His focus when he goes up there every at bat needs to be get on base any way possible. When you’re not hitting, look for walks. Look for hit by pitches. Look for anything to help the team and the hits will come.
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The cameras flashed to a pair of guys in the stands with Cubs wrestling masks on and I couldn’t help but think that Rob was one of the guys behind the mask. That is totally something he would have.
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Have you ever seen a play where a ball pops out of the ivy like what happened to Jim Edmonds? That was a weird play that had Kasper confused big time. Props to him for admitting a mistake by saying that Edmonds threw the wrong ball.
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Hunter Pence was involved in a couple of weird plays last night, one being the Edmonds ball issue and the other being a double off of Zambrano’s foot. Strange strange plays that almost lent themselves to a cycle by Pence.
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Why is Bobby Howry still on this team? Isn’t it clear by now that he’s not getting better and he’s not able to be counted on in anything other than junk baseball time. Why is he in the ballgame when it’s close and late? Come on Lou…make a better decision here.
I’m angry at the team right now, but I’m no where near a ledge and neither should you be. Just relax, be angry and prepare for tonight.
What is a number three hitter?
And, FWIW, Lee was 2 for 4 with a walk. That is good.
ARam had three errors.
But no one will attack ARam today, because he got lucky and the errors didn’t impact the final outcome. And people just do not hate ARam in the same way that they hate Lee.
A number three hitter is someone who actually drives in runs. Lee has only done it once.
Says who? And what does it mean to drive in runs?
Lee has only driven in runs once? And FWIW, Lee has a career line of .281/.391/.480 OPS: .870 with RISP.
AND… The Book has done lineup analysis showing that the #3 hitter should be the 4th or 5th best hitter on the team. That is probably about where Lee is right now.
What’s a gamer? What’s a number three hitter?
Good grief. Dave, no offense, but these little jabs are getting old. Everyone knows what Joe’s talking about, give it a rest.
Checking the numbers, I think the Lee argument is a product of our imagination.
OBP .372 SLG .383 AVG .298
That’s in 141 ABs, with 42 Hits, 54 RBI’s. He’s fifth on the team behind Reed Johnson, ARam and DeRosa.
Now if you want to argue about Daryl Ward, by all means do. He’s hitting. .081 with RISP. That’s worse than Dempster and Marquis.
Sorry, but when people make statements like, “He is not clutch” or “He is not a #3 hitter” or “He is a gamer” I think that these statements need to be clarified. And no, I do not know what Joe means. Because I do not buy into conventional wisdom on these things.
Don’t get me wrong on Lee though - Lee has struggle with people on base this year. But he has not struggle with people on base over his career. And 141 at-bats is a small sample size, and relatively meaningless when compared to his much larger sample over his career.
I was at that game last night, and Lee screwed up worse than you indicate. I seldom point at one player as “losing us that game,” but I’m pointing at Lee right now. The guy Lee was facing, in the eighth with a tie score and the bases loaded, had thrown 12 balls in his last thirteen pitches. Soriano–SORIANO–had already taken a walk. You have to have a plan when you come to the plate, and the right one here was obvious–don’t take the bat off your shoulder until and unless this guy gets two strikes on you. Lee swung at the second pitch. If he takes the walk he no doubt would have gotten, we would have had the lead, there still would have been one out, the bases would have still been loaded, and then Aram would have had the chance to try to break the game open. We didn’t need the game broken open, though, we need one friggin’ run, and that was Lee’s job.
Can I ask a question? Over the years, I’ve come to the conclusion that many baseball players–and I’m not sure exactly how else to phrase this–think it’s ‘gay’ to take a walk. Unmanly. Effeminate. A MAN comes up in that situation and by heaven he swings like a man. Am I wrong here? It drives me nuts when guys refuse to take walks when the opposing pitcher is handing them out like Halloween candy.
If Soriano came up and did what Lee did, it would have pissed me off, but not as much. I like Soriano, but I expect him to be a meathead sometimes. Lee, not so much. Especially when he’s been hitting into double plays all year, he has to come to the plate in that situation with his brain engaged. I have no excuse to offer him. He lost us that game.
Another thought: I have seldom seen such a collection of excruciatingly slow-ass pitchers in my life (starting with Howry, who looked terrified of throwing the ball), and never seen as many time-wasting pitching mound huddles. There must have been ten of them or more, and the Astros never broke one up until the Ump actually was on the mound making them do so. It drove me nuts.
Huh? Seriously? So Derrek Lee swung because he did not want to be “gay” or “unmanly” or “effeminate?” Are you kidding me?
And Derrek Lee, of all people? He has been one of the most patient players on the team since he joined the Cubs. Though, to be fair, he has shown less patience this year.
Lee saw a pitch that he liked and swung. It was a decent pitch to swing at, and he hit it hard, he just hit right at a guy.
Maybe not Lee in particular, but frankly I fail to see any other explanation that doesn’t make even less sense. “Lee saw a pitch he liked and swung.” If that’s true, he should be heavily fined by the team. There was no excuse to swing at anything under the unique circumstances he was facing. Your reasoning is far more insulting to Lee than mine, since it requires an appalling mix of stupidity, ill-judgement and selfishness.
I wouldn’t say “gay.” I think it’s un-sexy.
Sports Center doesn’t show clips of bases loaded walks.
Ok, like I said, I wasn’t sure if I was phrasing it right. Although I still suspect there’s more to it than that. I still think certain players feel it isn’t macho to sit back and take a walk. That sort of thing drives me nuts.
Blaming Lee is just looking for a scape goat. I’d like to see more from him (and several others), sure, but it was a team loss. Zambrano went out relatively quickly. Aramis had three errors (and Lee kept one from getting worse by leaping to grab a bad throw). Edmonds was up with the bases loaded and promptly ended the inning. DeRosa’s bunt didn’t drop. And we can’t exactly blame anyone but the pitching staff for giving up homeruns.
Can someone explain the logic of pulling Fontenot when he’s batting well? It seems like Lou keeps doing it, and it’s kind of baffling me.
I was really into the game after awhile…and now I’m just peeved I stayed up to watch it. Fortunately I won’t be home to see tonight’s game. My brain needs a break.
Soriano swung at a first pitch after they walked Theriot…..or someone. All the batting order changes got me all messed up.
That was another “meathead” moment. It’s hard to lay off a pitch you think you can drive.
Look… if hitters could walk every time, they would. It has nothing to do with being “unmanly” or “gay” or what ever the hell you are calling it. It has to do with it being difficult to lay off good pitches, and difficult to lay of breaking and off speed pitches. It has to do with playing against professional pitchers, and needing to make split second decisions on whether or not to swing.
I didn’t say it was gay. Please polish your reading comprehension skills. I suggested that some baseball players might think it’s ‘gay,’ or unmanly or whatever, to take a walk. Apparently you think it’s beyond possibility that some players might think that way. Fair enough. Getting opinions was why I raised the subject.
Even so, I do think it’s more than preferring a hit to a walk; I’ve seen batters seemingly working to avoid taking a walk when one was offered to them. More than sheer dumbness seems to be at work in these cases.
And there’s no doubt that you can’t go to the plate every time thinking “I’m going to take a walk.” That’s why I very carefully outlined the unique situation Lee was facing. You HAVE to go to the plate in that case telling yourself to lay off pitches. The ability to do that is pretty much the minimum of what would define a professional. They do this for a living, and need to play smart. Especially somebody like Lee, who has been struggling all year. Good grief, again, SORIANO took a walk, and it wasn’t even with the bases loaded.
Zambrano pitched pretty decently. Those errors behind him didn’t help.
What errors?
All three errors came after Z left the game.
Yea… and I said that I think that is insane.
Agreed with Ken. No glory in taking walks, like Matt said, no sportscenter replays highlight walks - although this season has showed us more than any other that cubs nation and sports analysts really celebrate/appreciate patient hitting…maybe the idea of AB’s are changing this season altogether?
Dave’s right too though…if you see a pitch that you want to hit, you freaking hit it. You’re a baseball player, if there’s one thing you should be excellent at, it’s hitting hittable pitches, and hitting them well
OK, but you suggested *I* thought it was gay, which is clearly not what I said. Insane seems a little strong, though. You don’t think there is ANY anti-homosexual prejudice in baseball?
I was at the game and didn’t see the official scoring, but there was a lot of dubious defensive play throughout the game. My comment stands. Zambrano wasn’t great, but he pitched better than it may seem if you hadn’t seen the game.
“Dave’s right too though…if you see a pitch that you want to hit, you freaking hit it. You’re a baseball player, if there’s one thing you should be excellent at, it’s hitting hittable pitches, and hitting them well”
An excellent hitter hits about three out of ten times. (And that even skips those occasions when he walks.) Everybody seemed to be on the same page in terms of taking walks that inning except for Lee, who was in the position where it made the MOST sense for him to do so. I have too much respect for Lee’s intelligence to give him a pass on this. There’s no excuse for swinging in that exact at bat, and certainly not on less than two strikes. Getting that double play cost us the game.
Like what? I actually do not recall one “dubious defensive play” while Z was pitching.
Zambrano wasn’t great, but he pitched better than it may seem if you hadn’t seen the game.
I saw the game. Pretty sure that the three walks and three extra base hits hurt a lot more than the “dubious defensive play.”
5 ip, 5 h, 3 bb, 3 k.
3 of the 5 hits were doubles.
That is not a good outing.
That was my impression, so maybe I am wrong. I wasn’t keeping a box score. But you clearly follow this a lot more closely than I do, so I’ll cede you that. I still don’t think it was an awful outing for Zambrano, though. A lot of his pitches seemed pretty sharp.
Ken it’s what YOU make of it. If you thought dubious play was an issue, then that’s fine. It’s your perogative. As a sportsfan, we’re all allowed our own interpretation of what we see, and think. There’s a select few that think their way is the only way to see things.
Like those with enough time to go back and edit their posts, and add blockquotes.
If there weren’t multiple opinions on things, it’d be pretty boring. Don’t you think?
I do indeed. This wouldn’t be a very interesting blog if everyone sang the same notes.
Here’s one tune we can all sing, though: Let’s win one today.
Huh? You are making fun of me because I changed my italics to blockquotes? Seriously?
I have no problem with different interpretations. I do like when people back them up though. As I said, I don’t recall any dubious defensive plays while Z was pitching, and I asked for examples. I am not sure why it is a bad thing to ask for examples of what he means.
No, that was fair. Like I said, though, I can’t give examples because I wasn’t keeping a box score. That was my impression, though. Since I can’t back it up, though, I’ll withdraw it.
Seriously… this pisses me off.
I have stuck to baseball. You may have different interpretations of baseball, but I don’t attack you personally for it. And I especially don’t attack you for something as silly as taking about 60 seconds to add blockquotes to my comments so that they are easier to read.
Lets stick to baseball.
Don’t you guys have jobs? =)
^Um, Dave, you’ve criticized people for using phrases like “number 3 hitter” and “gamer”. And you called someone’s interpretation of taking walks “insane”. That’s not exactly playing nice, either.
Conversation here is going to get a bit personal here from time to time, because we’re all passionate in one way or another about the Cubs.
I don’t believe that I have ever attacked the person for using the phrases. I have stuck to baseball reasons.
And I never criticized Joe for using the phrase “number 3 hitter.” I asked him to define it.
And fair enough about the insane comment… that was uncalled for.
I don’t know about the rest of you guys, but I suffered through the big Cub fold of 1969. I’m beginning to get that same queazy feeling in my gut. The only reassureance I can get is wit a six or seven game winning streak. Somebody please tell me it’s Nnnnooottt going to be 1969 all over again. Please make me BELIEVE !!!
Okay… I will tell you. It is Nnnnooottt going to be 1969 all over again. Some comforting thoughts:
* The Cubs have lost four straight games, but three of the starting pitchers will probably not be starting in the playoffs (Lilly, Marshall, Marquis).
* This is a team that has scored the most runs in the league, and allowed the fewest. Which also means that they have, far and away, the best run differential in the league.
* This is a team that has a winning record against every team in the NL other than the Phillies, Astros, and Nationals. And they tied the season series with the Nationals.
* This is a team that has the best record in the NL by a healthy margin.
When I used to play softball we were in a co-ed league and had a lady on our time who was playing for fun but wasn’t really good. If she made contact it was a weak ground ball. In our championship game we had the bases loaded with one out and I remember this ultra competitive guy on the team yelling at her from the dugout “Don’t swing. Don’t swing” fearing that she might hit into a rally ending double play. Yesterday I was thinking that Maybe someone should yell that to D-Lee in similar situations.
I also thought that maybe the “D-Lee DP” meter should now replace the Shawon-O-Meter. Maybe we could have that on the side of the VFTB page.
On a final note, that lady on my softball team did swing and hit a two rbi ground ball through the middle. The smile on her face was unforgettable.
Yes. I am making FUN of you. We all do it here from time to time.
It was not intended as a personal attack. I apologize. I don’t think we’ve ever had anyone go back and edit their own posts for easier reading. Except me. But that’s because I’m anal. 
Although you did go back and change your reponse to Joe (Post 4, which changed the dynamic of the discussion. That’s not right, and looks a little sketchy.
And back to baseball……I don’t think we’re in for another ‘69 collapse. Besides, even if they fall down the stretch, it’s almost impossible to not at least make the Wildcard. The Cubs have had only one major downturn this year. You can’t expect them to win two of three, or three of four all year. Losing streaks are bound to happen.
I did? What did I change?
All I changed was the italics to blockquotes.
This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains.
^ Does that make us a bunch of lolligaggers?
I also am mystified as to why Lou keeps on pulling Fontenot out. Last night he pulled out Fontenot, who was having a great night, to bat Blanco. Go figure.
Nothing like a few losses to fire this place up!
I’m not complaining, it’s interesting reading.
I will comment on Joe’s sense of amazement that Howry is still on the team. I concur. Every time he comes to the mound I get a bit of nausea and figure it’s time to go to bed. Sucks when it’s a day game. Heh heh. Inevitably when I wake up we’ve lost the lead if we had one, or are further behind. (Not talking stats here, just talking gut feel. And in this case it’s not a happy gut.) If you’re Lou, when do you decide you just can’t pitch him anymore? I think it should have been a long time ago but I guess that’s why I’m here and he’s there!
WOW. I leave for a while and look what happens. Let me go back to the #1 post and answer the question of what is a #3 hitter. A #3 hitter does one job - drive in runs. If the first two batters do their jobs, the #3 hitter gets first crack at driving in runs. I completely agree with Joe’s analysis about DLee. For me, when he comes up to bat, my stomach begins to hurt. I have lost confidence in him. He is not a clutch hitter. I do not want him batting when the game is on the line.
I have to say that this is by far the worst and pathetic performance I have seen put forth since the Dusty Baker days—-a low for the organization, especially considering his teams were also very talented, just lacked plate discipline…….I have no kind words for Lee, Howry, Marquis, or Soriano.
I have no kind words for Piniella either. If your players aren’t getting the job done, then put in hungry guys that deserve a shot. I can think of Kroeger, DuBois, Hoffpauir, Pie, Ceda, etc. that deserve a shot at more playing time. Okay, ARAM is scuffling? Give McGehee a shot. Lee sucks it up again and ruins a rally with a GIDP? Pull his ass, and insert Hoffpauir. Soriano dogs a play in the OF, and lost his swing? DFA a guy like Jake Fox or Pignatiello, and add Kroeger or Dubois. Marquis ruining another game giving up a big inning, or Z, Harden, or Lilly need a day off? Bring up Ceda, or perhaps give Samardzija or Guzman a shot at the rotation.
For crying out loud, if you’re gonna get swept in a series, and shutout twice by the ‘Stros—once by friggin’ Randy Wolf, who was basically given away by the Padres, then you have PROBLEMS!!!!!! Piniella needs to step up to the plate, and light a fire under this most embarrassing team. I do NOT want another ‘69, and I keep seeing visions of it everyday. I see visions of ‘04 as well. Complacency has gotten the best of this team, and nobody seems hungry anymore. I saw this day coming, unfortunately, early in the summer, when the Cubs had many opportunities to create significant distance between themselves and the rest of the division.
Some people would like to point to our record above .500 at 30+ games. Well, I’m here to tell you that the Brewers are keeping pace. It does you NO good if you’re losing games when the second place team is doing so as well. I think it’s the case of everyone trying to play the hero again just like earlier in the summer when we kept blowing it with guys like Z and Soriano out of the lineup and rotation. Guys were swinging for the fences and what not just like they were tonight. Here’s the biggest problem of all with the Cubs (injuries not withstanding—ie.-Harden, Z, etc.)—it’s the fact that when one big guy struggles, they ALL struggle. Early in the year when things were exceptionally good in April and May, EVERYONE was hot. Do you remember how many guys we had in the lineup hitting over .300 and getting on base at a .360 clip or higher? It was like 8 out of 9 in the lineup, and was otherworldly. But with this team, it’s feast or famine and it should scare each and every one of us. But more importantly it should piss off Lou, and it doesn’t seem to right now. He’s pulling a Dusty Baker approach, “well…it’s a long season, many games to go, we’ve had injuries….blah, blah, blah”. I’m watching Baker all over again, and it makes me wanna puke!!!!!!!!!
Aarbear, I understand your frustration and anger and agree with your comments. I feel the same way and I’m afraid the team and manager are becoming complacent and maybe a little cocky. Yes I am beginning to feel deja vu about 1969 even though we have a magic number of 19 now. If I remember correctly, the 1964 Phillies already had their world series lineup listed in the weekly TV guide….But the Cardinals had other ideas. I’ve been called paranoid but I’ve been a Cub fan since Phil Cavaretta and Andy Pafko played… quite awhile ago. They have let us down so many times, that I won’t believe it until I see with my own eyes the Cubs take the field on opening day at the World Series. I can only HOPE that this is our year…..and hope that I AM being paranoid. We’ll see…..?????
John,
I don’t think we’re being paranoid at all….I think we’re being logical and smart about it….as I referenced.
For instance:
1) leading the league in OBP means NOTHING unless you can get clutch hits. I don’t know the stats, but I am willing to bet that between Lee, Theriot, DeRosa, and ARAM, we are leading MLB in GIDP’s
2) WHen both your aces go down, or are skipped in the rotation (Z and Harden), it’s not a good sign, because….
3) the team that is breathing down your neck very hard, and keeping up with you step by step has an ace they just got before the deadline that has something like a 9-0 record with like 6 or 7 complete games and a near no-hitter, and shows no signs of slowing down. Furthermore, their former ace is also throwing well even though he has a recent groin problem, but we should be worried because….
4) even our big rotation guys Z, Harden, and Dempster have either injury issues, fatigue, or ineffectiveness, while the Brewers starters have been lights out lately, and we play them 6 more times to round out the year, AND, we play Houston 3 more times…a team which has ABSOLUTELY owned us lately. Furthermore, we also play St. Louis, a team which always plays us tough another 6 times, AND….if that wasn’t enough, we’re also playing the very hot Mets ballclub 4 times. We really have no reprieve. Why do I worry? Because….
5) The Brewers play such cupcake teams as 4 games against the Padres the next 4 days, 6 games against the Reds (we have only 3 coming up), and 3 games against the Pirates.
If I were a Brewers fan, I’d be very confident, especially with a shutdown starter like Sabathia. He reminds me of the Sutcliffe acquisition for us in ‘84, and very well might win the CY Young this year for only playing less than half the year in the NL. Unless we prove we can win against the good teams, then we are COMPLETE frauds (which, I actually think might be the case) I think for the most part, we were way overachieving. Don’t agree? Check this out…We have Theriot hitting over .300 (the only regular on the team doing so) after he had a woeful second half last year, Edmonds and Johnson were released by their respective teams for a reason, and are having amazing years (classic overachieving that gets you in trouble later on), Cedeno has great stats when his career stats look daunting and he’s NEVER proven anything…through in Fontenot too, Fukudome had a great first couple months when his walk totals were up and forced pitchers to make great hitters pitches to him, but when they figured out that he was patient, and threw him strikes early in the count and challenged him, he didn’t adjust, and thus, is also a fraud, Dempster has dramatically overachieved, considering his career stats as a starter (even his best year considered), and Marmol and Wood have overachieved based on inexperience and injury history respectively. Lee has WAY underachieved while Soriano, ARAM, and DeRosa are along the production lines of their career averages.
This does NOT make a good team. You need historically-backed stats, OR you have to have amazing rookies like Soto that finally click when the light bulb goes on. With a team full of overachievers like we have (Edmonds, Johnson, Fukudome, Theriot, Fontenot, Cedeno, Marmol, Wood, Dempster), and underachievers in (Z, Lee, Howry, Cotts, etc.), and only one consistent everyday hitter (ARAM), you’re looking at danger. I can’t remember how many times I’ve heard Len or Bob, or Lou, or even the players themselves talk about Soriano’s hot streaks, or DeRosa’s as well….When ARAM is your only fairly consistent hitter and ONLY true RBI threat, and your team gets on base a lot….what that means is that of course you’re going to be GIDP-prone.
anyway, sorry about my rant…i’m just pissed as hell right now, because everyone and their mom jumped on the Cubs bandwagon without even examining the facts first
The Cubs have the best batting average and the best OPS with runners in scoring position. They also have the best batting average and second best OPS in “close and late” situations. Most people who “examine the facts” would call that clutch.
Dempster has been been the Cubs’ best pitcher all year. So the ace has not gone anywhere. Facts?
4.5 games is not “breathing down your neck very hard.” Again, facts.
Huh? How does Dempster fit into those categories? Facts?
The Cubs have a winning record against every team fighting for a playoff spot except for the Phillies. Facts?
Not sure what is second half last year has to do with this year.
Cedeno has great stats? Huh? Facts, again: Cedeno has an OPS+ of 84. That is not “great,” or anywhere close to “great.”
Huh? How has Marmol overachieved? He was great last year, and has been great this year. He has nasty stuff. And he pitches like it. And Wood hasn’t overachieved. He also has great stuff, and has been able to stay somewhat healthy in a new role. That is not overachieving.
Wait… so a team that has been pretty dominating all year does not make a great team?
What? Ever hear of Soto? Soriano? DeRosa? Even Lee?
Any team that gets a lot of people on base will also have a lot of double plays.
Well… it is pretty clear based on your rant that you haven’t examined the facts.
Let me say this clearly - the Cubs have had the best offense, the best pitching, and one of the best defenses in the league. That makes them a very good, possibly great, team.
And a five game losing streak does little to change that.
Dave, facts just get in the way.
Losing 10-2 to the Reds? THE STINKIN’ REDS !!!???What’s our excuse this time….sore arms? Sore legs? Tennis elbows? Athlete’s foot? Oh yes, I forgot…it’s TIRED arms. They seem determined to blow this season like the Chicago Flubs of years gone by and I don’t think we can count on the Bears for much this year either. Yeh, I know we still got a four game lead and a “magic number” beside our name, but if these guys don’t get their act together pretty quick, they are going to be another bunch of pretenders instead of contenders !!! What’s that old saying about the past being prologue. Wake me when it’s over.