With all this talk about how Lou isn’t enamored with his centerfield options, and the Brian Roberts trade seemingly in perpetual limbo, I’ve been thinking about a certain someone. Obviously I’m not the only one, because in yesterday’s Tribune, VanDyke mentioned that very same person. Kenny Lofton.
I don’t know, maybe I’m still drunk from drinking too much Goose Island Kilgubbin’s Red Ale, but wouldn’t it make sense to pick up a guy that’s known for high base percentage, speed, defense, and a club house leader, for what I would think would be minimal money at this point. In the grand scheme of things, what’s another $2-3 million for a year? You get another left handed bat, and a bonafide leadoff hitter. And you give up nothing. Let me say that again, give up nothing. Not to mention this would clear the way to move Soriano from batting first, and get him into a run producing spot, and letting him rest his fragile legs in the colder months.
Someone tell me, what am I missing here? Is this too easy? Or am I General Manager of the year? And remember, when Matt thinks, it hurts. It hurts alot.
I think he’s a CF in memory only. At this point his defensive skills have diminished to the point where he can only play left, and probably only marginally at that. Fukedome in center and Murton in right would be a much better defensive alignment. There is no way that if he was still a viable option in center that not one major league team would take a flier on him.
I have always heard and read that Lofton is not a positive in the clubhouse…why has he been on 9 different teams since 2002? Plus why is he still available a week before games start?
Talent, yes, but is an aging veteran that complains about playing time what the Cubs need to play behind a young talent that is going to struggle at times? Put Pie in for 140 games this year and let him go through his growing pains.
couple of years ago maybe…..now I am not as certain!!
I am certain he would help, but would also stunt Pie’s growth. He is very Juan Pierre like in center at this point in his career. We are going to win with pitching and defense. If we trade Pie, I think Lofton is a nice fit. Otherwise, I would rather go with Pie and any other good defensive right handed center fielder.
The problem I have with Lofton is that he’s known as a clubhouse cancer. Few players like the guy and that’s why he finds himself on at least one new team per year and usually two teams per season. Second, is he really an improvement over Felix Pie? He’ll get on base more, probably steal some more bases (at least have a higher success rate), but Pie will play much better defense, hit for a much higher slugging percentage, and he’s paid only the league minimum. In 2008, Lofton might be a bit better (might be!), but at what cost is that to Pie? Another year in Iowa where he has nothing to learn?
I’d stay away. Far away actually.
It’s like having a 2nd entree, all it does is prolong the wait till the Pie.
^ It could make the Pie all that much better though.
Hey, I’m just throwing it out there. Lofton was one of the few guys that got on Sammy’s case after 2003, and his “need” to always try and hit HR’s, when singles or extra base hits would have been fine.
Frankly, if Lofton did in fact get on Sammy for that then I think it’s nothing more than additional evidence Lofton isn’t a very good teammate. As fans we may not like it, but Sammy Sosa’s job was to hit balls out of the park. He didn’t get paid to hit singles. So if he was swinging for the fence, which I doubt he was (I don’t think many players do that and even those who do probably don’t do it often), but he was doing his job then. I’d take Sammy before I’d take Lofton to be honest.
Although the thought of Kenny Lofton even for “free” does not get me all that excited, at what point (and I am not suggesting the Cubs are there) do we stop “waiting” for Pie.
Jackie, Pie has yet to be given the opportunity to take the starter’s job consistantly for enough at-bats to be meaningful. We junk Pie if it’s clear that he’s not helping us win games; in the meantime, we let him play. He’s a great defender and has a good track record in the minors as a hitter. There’s no reason to not give him a real chance.
Maddog, it’s called situational hitting. Sammy certainly was not high on the list of intelligent situational hitters. That’s what Lofton was getting at. Keep the rally going, don’t kill by trying to do too much. And yes, hitters do try and hit home runs.
That’s all I’m saying Jacki. Every year we hear this is Pie’s year and he fails to impress. What’s the back up plan? It’s all I’m asking.
Matt, what years are we talking about? In 2006 the Cubs refused to bring him up in September for a cup of coffee, trying to keep his service time clock from starting. In 2007 he was never given a full-time chance because the Cubs decided to sign two or three more outfielders and couldn’t find a taker for Jacque Jones. He’s never been given an unqualified, no-strings-attached chance to just go out there, play and show people what he’s got. And it’s rather unfair to pretend otherwise.
the kid signed when he was 16 and we’ve heard about him since. he’s still a pup. i don’t understand the rush to get him out there. there aren’t too many 22 year olds that put up good numbers in the pros.
hopefullly now he’ll get his chance.
Let’s see, 87 games, 177 ABs, .215 avg, and a .277 OBP. 87 games is a chunk of time.
I like Pie’s defense, but for a player that has been hyped as a five tool player, he has yet to impress. I think his approach at the plate is below average. Again, just asking what the back up plan is, since if he falters, there isn’t anyone in the wings this year. It’s ab obvious concern if Hendry’s looking at Coco Crisp as an alternative. I’m just asking why not Lofton?
Because Kenny Lofton is old, and his defense in center field is questionable at best. And it’s not like we have to go right this second and sign him or lose him – it doesn’t look like there’s a rush to get him.
And 177 AB is chump change. You need about 350 plate appearances for things like batting average and OBP to stabilize. And Pie’s Batting Average on Balls In Play looks very suspect from last season – I think his low batting average is a fluke, to be honest.
Lofton’s offenisve numbers from last year: .296 .367 .414
CF Fielding percentage: .985
LF Fielding percentage: 1.000
Not too shabby for a forty year old.
Fielding percentage only measures what happens when you get the ball; it doesn’t account for how often you can get to the ball, which is what we want to know about a guy at the tail end of his career like Lofton. And Lofton’s zone rating in left field last season was below-average – having below average range for a left fielder doesn’t inspire a great desire in me to sign him as our center fielder.
Thank you, Mr. Wyers
I really think people need to stop underestimating defense. Lofton is a liability in left, let alone center. There IS a reason he’s still available.
Sosa wasn’t a good situational hitter? What’s that based on? Here are his career numbers, which show a different picture than you’re trying to say, Matt.
Bases empty: 267/329/527
ROB: 280/360/542
RISP: 275/374/534
RISP w/ 2 outs: 257/367/579
Bases Loaded: 301/342/.566
None on, no out: 266/327/513
None on, 1/2 out: 268/330/537
Men on, 2 outs: 266/361/524
Man on 3rd, less than 2 outs: 319/389/575
That’s an .855 OPS with the bases empty, but with runners on base he hit much better (.902 OPS). With runners in scoring position he hit even better (.908 OPS). RISP with 2 outs at .886 OPS. Bases loaded he hit the same as RISP (.908 OPS…much better than his bases empty OPS).
Take a look at this improvement
None on, no out: .840 OPS
None on, 1/2 out: .867 OPS
Men on, 2 outs: .885 OPS
Man on 3rd, less than 2 outs: .964 OPS
Seems to me that Sammy Sosa was quite good as a situational hitter. Memories, of course, can be a killer to one’s opinions of a player and this is the case here, Matt. Your not recalling facts, which clearly shows he was a good situational hitter (whatever that means), but recalling opinions shaped by talk shows and your own personal frustrations with the player.
Like I said, whatever Lofton said, it’s proof the man is an ass. Lofton has as much right to criticize Sammy Sosa as Ryan Theriot does to criticize Barry Bonds.
When someone says “situational hitter,” it doesn’t mean anything about clutch – at least, not directly. It means things like “hitting sacrifice flies” and other grindery things.
Please forgive the following minor rant regarding Felix Pie.
I’d like to bring up the career of a particular Hall of Fame player who took a little while to fully develop his skills. In his first five full seasons, he put up a BA/OBP/SLG of .282/.311/.395 (hitting from 4 to 7 HR a year) while playing a corner outfield position, where a ballclub usually expects better power numbers than in CF. His BA each year (in order) was .255, .311, .253, .289, & .296. He was 20 yrs. old as a rookie and 24 yrs. old through the end of this period. After that, he hit .329/.375/.503 for the remainder of his career, winning 4 batting titles, 12 Gold Gloves, 13 All-Star game selections and collecting 3,000 hits. He was Roberto Clemente.
I bring this up to point out that we Cub fans need to forget about the Corey Patterson debacle and give Felix Pie a chance to develop. Remember that Corey had ONE good season in the minor leagues at Class A ball (batting .320) and then never batted above .261 in the minors after that. All of his hitting stats got WORSE with every promotion he got in the minors.
Felix, on the other hand, has IMPROVED at every level of the minor leagues as he was promoted up the chain. Plus he is only 22 years and has shown the ability to adapt, adjust and improve at every minor league level. And he has NOT been rushed to the majors despite showing that he had not been able to adjust to the tougher competition at the higher minor league levels. Finally, he plays an excellent defense in center field, a position where one can afford to carry a less-than-excellent bat.
The Pirates hit the jackpot with Clemente because they were able to be patient and allow Clemente to develop into the great hitter they saw in him. This did not happen until he turned 25 years old. Pie will be 23 this season. Give him some time to learn and adjust. He hit .304/.349/.554 as a 20 yr. old in AA ball. He then hit .283/.341/.451 as a 21 yr. old in AAA Iowa. Last year as a 22 yr. old, he hit .362/.410/.563 at AAA Iowa. His yearly batting average progression up the Cubs organizational ladder has been as follows, starting as a 17 yr. old: .314 (combined Rookie & A-), .285 (low A), .299 (high A), .304 (AA), .283 (AAA), .362 (AAA).
Lou Brock batted .263 for the Cubs in 1962 as a 22 yr. old rookie, .258 as a 23 yr. old and .251 as a 24 yr. old for half a season with the Cubs in 1964. The Cubs traded him to the Cardinals on June 15, 1964. Brock turned 25 three days later. He also batted .348 for the rest of the 1964 season and propelled the Cardinals to the first of 2 World Series wins and three pennants in his career as a Cardinal. The Cubs, on the other hand, have yet to win a single pennant since then.
Corey Patterson was 26 when the Cubs gave up on him. Lou Brock was 24 when the Cubs traded him and had his breakout season at 25. Roberto Clemente was mediocre until his breakout season at age 25. Pie just turned 23. For pete’s sake, give him some time. Geez.
Agreed
See, my job here is done. I got people talking. That’s all I wanted.
I’m the last person you need to talk about defense. I’ve been a defensive player my entire life. I swing a toothpick, but make up for it with my glove.
And again, I’m not saying Lofton is the “end all” of choices, but what’s the back up plan? I haven’t heard anyone offer up any suggetions. If Pie falters, who then?
Pie is not the problem. Theriot is, or rather, Lou’s idea of batting him leadoff is the problem. He’s just not a top of the order hitter. Fukudome and Murton are.
I would rather have Theriot batting leadoff than Murton or Fukudome. Those guys would be murder on the basepaths when comared to Theriot. At least Theriot can steal bases and can run to third on a hit to rightfield.
Gentlemen, do you seriously not realize that this is anticipation of THE trade? Sweet Lou has basically said as much. Let’s not get our knickers in a twist here.